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Post by holi on Jun 17, 2012 17:36:48 GMT 1
Well I took her in the school and once again it was 'whats that over there' 'spook at the same fence' 'fight the bit' and I ride her quietly and on a loose contact as she is learning western and try to keep her focused by repetition etc.
Anyway I lost it and got very cross (mainly with myself) and I confess I really told her off - verbally as I never carry a whip and don't have exactly iron legs. I started riding her more purposefully and with direction and it worked!! She actually listened and put in some fab work. I'm such a wuss I tend to sit there being very gentle and say pretty please so I thought no more and 'this is what you are doing lady' and she listened. Feeling rather empowered at the moment as I am fed up with feeling scared! I talked it over with OH after as he was there and we did agree that my geting angry was a fraction of what most people deliver from day to day as I didn't take it out on the horse just had more ooomph - he did say that he did an IH course and the instructors really don't take being pushed around. Its no then pressure off. I think following IH (and we do get it directed at us) we tend to be a bit - well wimpish and soft when actually horses aren't like that to each other and if you see Monty work, when he says no he means it. So hopefully this is the start of a new me and if it means I just ride round having letting of a bit of steam which makes me not wimp then so be it. I suppose as they would say I rather bigged myself up lol.
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Post by lizpurlo on Jun 17, 2012 18:23:37 GMT 1
Holi, that sounds great, well done you! Sounds like what Mary Wanless calls 'benevolent outrage' which is a very useful concept, I reckon. Now you know what to do to get your girl to take you seriously..... the start of a new chapter in your relationship. Terrific.
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Post by Mellymoo on Jun 17, 2012 20:57:53 GMT 1
Well done you!! I have to say I get mad with Jos sometimes when we're hacking out - he is always wanting to eat and has developed the most amazing techniques to get his head down! He pushes and pushes, then I get annoyed and roar at him and he is a good boy after that (for a few minutes anyway!).
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Post by holi on Jun 18, 2012 6:56:15 GMT 1
benevolent outrage - I like that. Honestly I thought I was going to get told off by all of you as something you should never ever do but I really felt like she was bullying me. I was constantly giving her the benefit of the doubt as she has a locking stifle, hasn't been well schooled, changing disciplines - every excuse I could think of! She is strange though - I had an RA out who did a sort of join up with her and she said then that she never ever gives you her full attention - she did text book join up but then looked away so you never have her fully. My OH has a good analogy - he says that its not that I can't ride but my volume control is too low so when I say no, they don't hear it. Well its turned up now lol!!
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Post by lizpurlo on Jun 19, 2012 16:46:05 GMT 1
I really like your OH's comment, very neatly put!
Another useful thing to think about - when you're feeling helpless on board, and it all seems to be going pear-shaped, ask yourself 'on a scale of one to ten, how much am I in charge here?' - and if the answer you give yourself is 3 or 4, then ask yourself 'so what do I do now to bring it up to 8 or 9, or even 10??' It's amazing how often you find you can give yourself the right answer!
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Jun 19, 2012 16:58:47 GMT 1
Well done you! Sometimes, because of our IH ethos we can be too lenient with them. Nancy can be very lazy, bored too, i work a lot harder most of the time, upping my energy just doesnt cut it, she ignores it, why? Because she can. Ive heard people say the voice doesnt work, i say that it does. I get this really lazy, hunched back trot, if anyone saw it you would think that horse is lame, i too in the past have thought hmm, not right. Ulcers? Stiffness? So i have stopped the session. Horsea learn very quickly lol. Anyway to cut to the chase the last session i really got after her, loud voice, lots of energy and tally ho, we got tally ho! I had energy and concentration. She knew i meant business. Again well done you . Sent from my GT-I9100 using ProBoards
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natty
Olympic Poster
Posts: 652
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Post by natty on Jun 20, 2012 23:47:58 GMT 1
Well done :-) People think I'm mad but I believe horses no when you tell them off, it was only the other day I saw my moody mare going for a gelding over the fence i shouted don't you dare and she turned and walked off, admittedly as she turned she tried to double barrel him but still she didn't bite like she was going to hehe I always find its a lot better to let off steam shouting than hitting which far too many people are quick to do
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Post by holi on Jun 21, 2012 10:41:15 GMT 1
lol I have visions now of all these women shouting around the country!
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Post by iceberg on Jun 21, 2012 14:54:21 GMT 1
Well done.xx
I remember I had lazyness problems with Archie - legs legs legs nag nag, and got nowhere - he would grind to a halt and just made it so difficult for me. I didnt like carrying or using a whip - tried various tactics and then had a lesson with Lisa from Equisci, the ethos is ask nicely and up the anti if ignored ( increase the pressure basically). And it has worked very well for Archie and me, if I ask for trot now his answer is how far? not oh ok in a minute if you hassle me kind of attitude!
The ridden work is a transition from groundwork which comprised most of our first lesson - and its true the transition from ground to ridden is clear - after 20 mins on the ground i got on and immediately noticed a difference. He listened and responded to what i asked of him quickly and without a fuss.
So i do think you are right, trying to use IH sometimes can turn us too far the other way and ask 'too nicely' and not get the desired reaction or result. Its a fine line, a balancing act.x
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Post by ruthp on Jun 21, 2012 15:51:03 GMT 1
Good for you!
I've noticed that I can get good results if I pretend to get angry - not really get angry because then I'm not fully in control. And I think you've just explained why it works. It's all about upping the energy and intent. Going from "Please, will you just....?" to "OK, this is how it's going to be...."
Very good point, and one I must remember! Thank you.
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Post by holi on Jun 21, 2012 15:54:04 GMT 1
It made me think about how true Mary Wanless's title of Ride with your Mind is. I had my lesson today and we were talking about it - I did laugh as apparently Monty's way of expressing it is 'just ride the horse!' Anyone want to belong to the ex-drip club ?
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Post by ruthp on Jun 21, 2012 16:17:57 GMT 1
You've also reminded me of an incident a few years ago - long before my confidence took such a nose dive. I used to have a TB x Arab on whom I did endurance. He was fantastic at his job, but horrible to hack alone as he was a real spook monster. My OH and I took both our horses to an EGB training ride about 15 miles from home, quite early in the year - probably February.
We did the 15 mile ride with no problems, but then Red wouldn't load to come home. After a couple of hours, by which time OH's horse was getting very cold in the trailer, I tacked him up and rode him home.
I was VERY cross. And we had limited time to get home before it got dark. So I rode hard. No walk - trot where we couldn't canter and canter where we could. And he didn't put a foot wrong. Never even thought about looking sideways at something - just got on with the job, and to be honest he seemed to enjoy it.
Another case of rider's intention and energy giving the horse the required confidence maybe?
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Post by ladyndibs on Jun 21, 2012 17:08:27 GMT 1
I'm certain horses respond to voice, if I'm leading Lady and Dibbles has 'that look' and I tell him no he will shake his head and glare as though he's been unjustly accused of murder or worse or look away as I must be telling someone else off because he is such good boy and was only trying to help but once told he does back off.
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Black Bob
Olympic Poster
"Never confuse your career with your life." (Dave Barry)
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Post by Black Bob on Jul 9, 2012 2:22:21 GMT 1
I had an RA out who did a sort of join up with her and she said then that she never ever gives you her full attention - she did text book join up but then looked away so you never have her fully. Rats, rats, rats!! Bob has been doing exactly that to me for a couple of months now, and I've only fully realised just how much he does it this morning! The first clue I got was from the 16 year old daughter of a friend who was calling out a dressage routine for me to use in the school. She spotted that every time we did a halt on the centre line of the school, Bob immediately started looking around - and immediately lost sight of me and what I was asking him to do. I'd never noticed it at all - but that's Hannah for you. Bright as a button, and sharp as a needle! Then I noticed it again this morning, when I was concentrating on making sure he walked with me to the turnout field, rather than constantly trying to force the pace. Every time I stopped him, his head immediately swung away from me - and that seems to be his favoured form of evasion. Body stays with me, but his mind is off with the fairies! So I kept pulling his head back towards me, and focusing my entire attention on him, and saying over and over again "Stay on me! Stay on me!!" until he did. Now, I'd have thought that blasting him with that forceful a gaze and voice would have wound him up, and made him try to pull away from me. But the odd thing was that he calmed down, you could feel the tension draining out of him, his head stopped doing giraffe impressions and lowered again, and he started the old 'lick and chew'. After doing that a few times, he got the message that, until he did relax and focus on me, he wasn't moving one step towards the field. Same thing when I took him into the field. Instead of going in ten yards or so, before turning him to take the head collar off, I led him right up to the top of the field - insisting that he stayed focused on me all the way along - and then stopped and made him stand there for a few minutes before I even started taking off the head collar. I wouldn't let him take even half a step forwards - which is what I've done before - but stopping him looking away from me seemed to be the key in calming him down, releasing his tension, and stopping his wanting to rush off. I also tried a technique I came across years ago in a meditation group - taking a huge breath in, holding it for a moment, then letting it rush out, taking my physical and tension with it. It seemed just as effective at releasing his physical and mental tension, too! But I'd never have guessed that him simply looking away from me could be such an effective evasion technique on his part - or that by stopping him from doing it I could get such a dramatic change in his behaviour.
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Post by shan on Jul 9, 2012 13:04:35 GMT 1
I confess I am a real soft touch, and I do try to be more direct but it's a WIP! I do have to be really stern with Sandy at times and yes it does work, then sometimes I feel bad that I've been 'harsh' with her, when really I've just been out of my normal comfort zone and done what she needed me to do for a response! Really we're just doing what other horses do - ask subtly and if it doesn't get a response, keep getting clearer! Some of them need a ballsy leader and some need a support worker!
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