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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 1, 2012 17:33:43 GMT 1
Just wondered how many people are really clear about what they get from their BHS Insurance? As far as I can tell all you get is third party liability i.e. if your horse gets out of his field and runs into a car and injures the driver the insurance will pay out.
Some people talk to me though as if they believe they've covered for:- Time off work if they are injured Their horse's vets bills Teaching people on their horse - if the person is injured
I'm not sure how far you're covered if a friend is riding your horse and falls off and sues you? If it's proven you were negligent would you still be covered by the insurance.
It's often the case that these things aren't really examined until an accident happens! Has anyone much experience with this kind of insurance?
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Derek Clark
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Post by Derek Clark on Jan 1, 2012 19:40:14 GMT 1
Hi Kelly, There have been all sorts of discussions about BHS insurance recently... As you know, I'm neither a lawyer nor an insurance broker (so don't rely on my advice, in other words ) but I get the distinct impression that the BHS insurance will ONLY cover someone in the event that they ARE held to be negligent. Even then, there are so many excluded circumstances that it's hard to work out when you would be covered. I've given up on it as being almost completely useless. I'm not having a go at the BHS here, just saying that the policy barely covers anything and it would be very easy to find oneself in trouble if relying on it!
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Post by Kelly Marks on Jan 1, 2012 19:53:00 GMT 1
Hmmm thanks Derek - I've been getting that impression from some of these insurances - it seems you don't really know until you have a problem?! I'm sure there MUST be an IH Insurance genius somewhere?! I wonder if LawyerBunny would know?
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Post by rj on Jan 1, 2012 20:36:25 GMT 1
It's Third Party Liability cover (if you mean the cover you are given 'free' with your BHS membership. It will only be valid if you have no other more appropriate PL cover, so if you have a policy which covers a specific horse and includes PL cover, it is that policy which will deal with any claim against you. You haved to be proved negligent to be liable for injury to a third party or damage to their property. If you were not negligent no policy will pay out, and neither would you have to - because it wasn't your fault! If your horse causes injury to someone elses, they may try to claim from you for the cost of the vets bills, but any Liability Insurer is likely to say that horses are horses and in most circumstances I can think of, deny liability on your behalf. You cannot be held liable if your horse is merely carrying out normal equine behaviour. However, when I gave a friends horse a lift in my trailer when she needed to get to the vet in Newmarket, and then tried to turn my rear unload trailer into a front unload (!) BHS did pay up, after a brief 'discussion' with me. They did try to get out of it, but we were able to state that it was unexpected and unusual behaviour for this horse who had been regularly taken to clinics in the previous 12 months with no problems.
Do remember that if you are being given something for nothing it's not going to give you all of the bells & whistles. Liability Insurance can be expensive, as of course can be vet-fees, loss of earnings etc. Insurance is not a charity, it's more like a betting shop. The cost of the premiums (bets) HAS to cover the cost of the claims (wins) or they can't survive.
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Azrael
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Post by Azrael on Jan 1, 2012 21:07:18 GMT 1
I've only really got it for the 3rd party insurance, I've got some pretty decent sick pay from work that'd keep me and ponies in food for at least 6 months if I did get injured but I'm pretty sure there is some kind of personal injury thing included as well. I'm not too impressed with insurance in general at the moment having found a clause that NFU require the horse to be done by a registered farrier, so it seems I've been wasting my money for several years since I trim them myself Considering taking shoes off and doing my own little unregisted thing instead of sticking with a farrier got me a sound horse and saved them a claim this summer I'm not too impressed
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Post by lawyerbunny on Jan 2, 2012 18:44:58 GMT 1
Spot on, rj - the point of insurance is to cover your liabilities: you need to be found to be liable to someone else first, before it will pay out on an accident claim. For a claim to be paid, the type of liability must be something the policy covers. There will also be limits on the maximum that will be paid on each claim, and an excess for the policy-holder to meet. Liability in claims involving animals is notoriously difficult to establish. The keeper of an animal will not be strictly liable if the horse is, as you put it rj, just 'being a horse' - unless the animal is showing a particular (but not usually shown) characteristic, or alternatively the injured party can show some specific negligent act. Do remember that if you are being given something for nothing it's not going to give you all of the bells & whistles. Liability Insurance can be expensive, as of course can be vet-fees, loss of earnings etc. Insurance is not a charity, it's more like a betting shop. The cost of the premiums (bets) HAS to cover the cost of the claims (wins) or they can't survive. A really important point to remember, this, and well put! It's really vital to check you have the right policy for the job you need it to do. In my experience, people are used to buying insurance quickly over the internet, merrily price-comparing to get a good deal and expecting a whole load of cover for not a lot. We often deal with clients in disputes with insurers - both the other (allegedly liable) party's insurers and their own insurers! - when claims are made/contemplated. We also act for professional indemnity insurers (who insure solicitors, valuers, accountants, construction professionals etc) so see the process of claims handling from both sides. To insure a professional for their activities can be an expensive business with high premiums. If you're looking for specific cover, a good broker is worth their weight to make sure you get the policy you need and help you if you later need to make a claim.
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Post by mc on Jan 3, 2012 11:33:09 GMT 1
Hi- I don't have the BHS one I joined the Driving Club for theirs which is under £30 I think all in and that is through the NFU and seems to cover friends etc and third party for riding or driving- though we noticed you have to loose a limb or something to get a specified payout and the children only get a part of the adult amount! It used to have no excess but now I think it is £200- which I suppose covers taking off a wing mirror with your foot type of thing and I keep that much in my old post office account just in case!
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Post by Andrew Moy on Jan 3, 2012 13:10:15 GMT 1
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Post by rj on Jan 4, 2012 13:30:58 GMT 1
Ah yes, but does everybody read before they buy, and if they do, do they really understand?! I've been in Insurance (company/broker/claims) jobs for 40+ years, and have always said 'read it now; don't wait til you have a problem when it's too late. And if you don't understand just ask' I bet in most cases LawyerB deals with, the Insurers land up winning one way or another. And if I gave £5 to everyone who came back with a query after reading their documents, I wouldn't be much poorer than I currently am!
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pip
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Post by pip on Jan 10, 2012 13:59:45 GMT 1
The new BHS Yearbook has just come out, and the details of the insurance cover are there at the start of the book. So no excuse for not understanding!
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Post by jamesb on Jan 10, 2012 20:15:56 GMT 1
The new BHS Yearbook has just come out, and the details of the insurance cover are there at the start of the book. So no excuse for not understanding! I beg to differ; there's no excuse for not reading. Understanding it is a whole different ball game! ;D
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Post by portiabuzz on Jan 13, 2012 20:53:53 GMT 1
Lol jamez...
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calekio
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Post by calekio on Jan 22, 2012 7:40:05 GMT 1
I have BHS purely for the sake of if the horses say got out of there field and hit a care, wreaked something etc or hurt someone its there, also i beleive if say we were taking them for a walk etc and they got away from us and hurt someone.
I'm also under the understanding that it covers me for my horses if a friend is handling them and me handling other people's horses.
But had this convo a few months ago with a friend when my pony booted someone's dog as to weather or not i'd of been deemed liable as said dog was running round my ponies, owner had no control, 2 dogs off a lead and one one lead with her anyway, we stopped and stood for about 10 minutes with this blinking lab running round my 4 miniatures (all which have handlers... at which point the kids had got off!!) and ran straight into the back leg of my 4yr old miniature who at this point decided enough was enough and double barrelled the dog! The owner did seem to admit it was her dog's fault (the dog might i add.. not her fault! lol) but me and friend were discussing if i would have liable because my horses were perfectly under control but said dog wasn't!
Edited to add: My ponies are often used for doing pony rides at events/school fairs and for this we have seperate liability cover from an event insurance that specifically covered my ponies at events doing led pony rides, as i know BHS wouldn't cover this.
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Post by Hannah on Jan 24, 2012 12:11:14 GMT 1
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jinglejoys
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Post by jinglejoys on Mar 26, 2012 18:15:03 GMT 1
I presumed that as BHSGold covered me for fun rides etc it covered me for taking Picasso to the Mule stand at the Malvern Autumn but when I checked it didn't as apparently I was being paid to have him on the stand!...was I!!!!!? no one told me,we don't even get petrol money
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