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Post by mandal on Mar 23, 2012 22:00:21 GMT 1
Oh dear Catrin, I didn't realize the Grayson's leg was broken. Hope it mends with no problems. I hope he's got his trousers back if he's out and about on a scooter. At least you can pull the plug if he gets out of control. ;D
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Post by jen1 on Mar 23, 2012 23:21:41 GMT 1
so ok , a spanner if i may , would working a horse harder make it more nonchalant/stoical , what ever you want to call it, through pain? i mean i must happen with so many ill fitting saddles,
mta, thats not really a question because i know it happened the horse world over, its more the question of what if that gives us paralysis by analysis
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Post by misty on Mar 23, 2012 23:43:14 GMT 1
When my OH was sick and couldn't hardly walk we didn't have time for the horses and they were in a field for nearly a year. We built a roundpen as OH isn't 100% and Rosie needed work, lots of work. Totally agree too much feed and not enough exercise makes a horse less easy to handle. My QH, who was scared of hacking now gets excited which I know is naughty but it is so nice to know she wants to go out and have fun, I think in her younger days she had been turned ring sour. I think you have to know your horse and this takes time.
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Post by Catrin on Mar 24, 2012 0:16:50 GMT 1
Oh dear Catrin, I didn't realize the Grayson's leg was broken. Hope it mends with no problems. I hope he's got his trousers back if he's out and about on a scooter. At least you can pull the plug if he gets out of control. ;D The x-ray showed that his knee has a bit knocked off, as well as collateral ligaments that were going in the wrong direction. He has his leg in a splint, but after four days of being fairly well behaved, I let him out as his trousers were dried and aired. I slotted him and the crutches across the back seat of the car and took him out to see the horses. The NHS is not as I thought it was. If you are an animal, only a vet can assess you and diagnose your condition. The emergency nurse examined his leg, the radiographer x–rayed, the nurse diagnosed from the two, applied the splint and decided the treatment. The doctor will see him next Friday — seventeen days after the 'accident' The mobility scooter will have to wait, Grayson can't bend his leg.
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Mar 24, 2012 8:24:56 GMT 1
so ok , a spanner if i may , would working a horse harder make it more nonchalant/stoical , what ever you want to call it, through pain? i mean i must happen with so many ill fitting saddles, mta, thats not really a question because i know it happened the horse world over, its more the question of what if that gives us paralysis by analysis Exactly jen. In pain.. They then become resentful of work. Then become unwilling, nappy, dangerous. Last night was a perfect example of me knowing my horse & not looking for excuses not to ride her. I knew something wasnt right which was causing unwillingness/lazyness/ spookyness. Last night she was none of these. I got some beautiful willing work. She is back on the succeed and has been for a week. My gut feeling was right about her not being right which was causing her spooky behaviour. Why get on a horse & try to work them through when you know for a fact you are setting yourself up to fail? Maybe some horses still feel discomfort but they are worked through it so much so that they have no choice but to submit & become compliant. I dont want to fight my horse, i want to listen and have a willing partnership. Makes life so much easier. In some cases work makes things better. In others it makes things a whole lot worse :-\. Sent from my GT-I9100 using ProBoards
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Post by cookie on Mar 24, 2012 8:51:20 GMT 1
Were you evesdropping on my conversation with my trainer the other day Lisa? My pony will be 8 in may. Due to a catastrophic injury at the start of his fifth winter he has never been properly fit as you describe. He's now been working soundly 12months and can school, and can hack for a couple of hours steadily. But the progress educating him to work correctly and to take him to a higher level of fitness is not linear . And is not helped by him sharing me with a toddler, and me working. But he is not one who 'needs' the work and is happy and dependable. A few years ago I had another pony vetted and the vet said at the end 'he's a super sort but he needs working, he's the kind I'd buy to take my wife hunting'. My initial reaction was that he was overstepping his brief, however I thought hard and didn't buy that horse. In my domestic situation now I'd have had to sell him. The vet was right, he would not have suited my lifestyle. Years ago, my friend took a little rescue mare to Kelly, the first things she was advised was to feed her only forage, get her regular turn out and work her. She didn't do well with more than a day or so off, and she was a 14hh connie, not a big sportshorse but hacking, pleasing you, they lit her up and made everything about her handling just a little bit easier. So that's my (limited) experience. But I don't feel guilty about not riding as much as others, and I don't think anyone with happy horses, or indeed horses making good steady progress, should!
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Post by sandy on Mar 24, 2012 10:57:50 GMT 1
I was thinking about this thread when I woke at 5.30 am - strange what you think about in the early hours. Anyway I thought.................................which can quite often be dangerous................ and its probably been said elsewhere in this thread, but horses have survived for millions of years and their physical form has adapted over that time so that they are the ultimate prey animal. In the wild they rarely do more than walk as they need to conserve all their energy for that moment when the mountain lion attacks - then they gallop. Granted they walk over 20 square miles daily in search of forage but maybe their bodies/joints/ligaments etc have developed over the years to be walkers with the odd bit of strenuous stuff thrown in. Therefore, and my point finally is...............................are our horses bodies suited for intense, frequent exercise or is it detrimental as evolution has made them an ambler albeit a beautiful, graceful ambler! I know through selective breeding we have attempted, in some cases, to make them more athletic but maybe its just the arrogance of the human race that we feel that we can/need to change these animals from calm, peaceful survivors to mega fit atheletes for our own pleasure. Maybe many behavioural /mental/physical problems are actually caused by the strenuous/unthoughtful/ unsympathetic/unnecessary exercise that is deemed healthy but not actually suitable for an animal that has evolved in the way of the horse! Sorry I'm waffling! Looking forward to your thoughts
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Post by lisap on Mar 24, 2012 11:10:27 GMT 1
Hey, this thread was not aimed at anyone personally - I don't do that sort of thing. 2 Bays and a Grey, I haven't seen you or your neds, so wouldn't ever presume to make a judgement about the issues that you feel that you have with Nancy at present. Believe me, Emma and I know *all* about attempting to ride a horse that is actually dangerous. Anyone who saw Tuli at last May's Francois clinic will confirm that it was heart-stopping stuff for everyone watching. I had two people march up to me during the clinic to tell me that there was no way this horse should be ridden, it was so out of control. Had I been his rider, Tuli would have been either sold or shot by now as despite a lot of experience, there was no way I was going to be able to cope with him. Emma was and is the perfect rider for him, she sat *everything* he threw at her until he came out the other side of it. And yes, we had him on omeprazole for ulcers, had a full thermal body image scan done on him, an equine healer, osteopath, every single check you could imagine. In the end, although all these things helped, it was Emma's skill and determination to just keep riding him that turned him around. That and 5 days galloping on the Lambourn downs. Now, before anyone leaps down my throat - I am not advocating that this approach will work for any horse, just that riding the b**rs through the unwanted behaviour has to be factored into the mix of solutions. What I will say, though, is that horses are a darned lot more smart than we give them credit for. If they discover that a bit of a nap or spook means they get the day off (and they can feel the rider's fear and desire to stop - they really can), then they will use that behaviour all the time until they get the reputation as having a problem which needs 'sorting'. And, when that behaviour is established it can sometimes mean a battle of wills between horse and rider to re-establish the ground rules, which is when you need a calm, determined, velcro bottomed jockey!
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Post by mandal on Mar 24, 2012 11:32:30 GMT 1
I was thinking about this thread when I woke at 5.30 am - strange what you think about in the early hours. Anyway I thought.................................which can quite often be dangerous................ and its probably been said elsewhere in this thread, but horses have survived for millions of years and their physical form has adapted over that time so that they are the ultimate prey animal. In the wild they rarely do more than walk as they need to conserve all their energy for that moment when the mountain lion attacks - then they gallop. Granted they walk over 20 square miles daily in search of forage but maybe their bodies/joints/ligaments etc have developed over the years to be walkers with the odd bit of strenuous stuff thrown in. Therefore, and my point finally is...............................are our horses bodies suited for intense, frequent exercise or is it detrimental as evolution has made them an ambler albeit a beautiful, graceful ambler! I know through selective breeding we have attempted, in some cases, to make them more athletic but maybe its just the arrogance of the human race that we feel that we can/need to change these animals from calm, peaceful survivors to mega fit atheletes for our own pleasure. Maybe many behavioural /mental/physical problems are actually caused by the strenuous/unthoughtful/ unsympathetic/unnecessary exercise that is deemed healthy but not actually suitable for an animal that has evolved in the way of the horse! Sorry I'm waffling! Looking forward to your thoughts I think this is where increased low level exercize comes in ie. possibly tracks, less stabling etc. as a basic requirement for health of horses. Getting a horse fit for what we want to do is a steady progression of gradually building physical fitness and mental acceptance. These are the sort of things IH teaches and imo is fundamental to a happy working horse. Whether horses are stressed by it is something I don't know myself but tend to think if done well and sensitively, like anything we do with them we can train them to accept it willingly, stress free and they can even enjoy it. I do think many horses 'run' almost purely on their flight instinct though. Racing for eg and hunting (if not trained up sensitively) etc.
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Post by BJMM on Mar 24, 2012 12:01:10 GMT 1
2Bays and a Grey, I beg to differ with your opinion that horses cannot get sore muscles. Of course, I am not a horse ;D but a fifty something rider who still thinks she's a teenager and, despite not being terribly fit, will suddenly get a mad urge to do a hunter trial or a four hour endurance ride. Now, a few days afterwards all my muscles will be incredibly stiff and sore, and that can last a week, so I can reasonably deduce that an unfit horse could feel the same after strenuous exercise. On a different note - Jasmine, my TBx 5yr old, is sometimes a bit bargy and stroppy with her feet, pulls faces when groomed and can spook for England! Lots of people have told me that she possibly has metabolic issues, mineral deficiencies, hind gut problems etc etc. I knew she was just being a 'Kevin' in my heart but I had her checked out extensively - she has no physical issues. But she does need regular work and thrives on long, steady hacks several times a week. Had these comments re her possible health been made to someone less experienced, or anxious by nature, they could have spent months trying various therapies, supplements, manipulation etc, and been unecessarily worried (not to mention how it could have affected Jas!) It's a bit like - when I had my kids twenty odd years ago, things like allergies, intolerances, ADHD and the like, were very rare. Now it's rare to find a child in a classroom who DOESN'T have an identified medical or psychological issue. And it seems to be going a similar way with our horses and other 'pets'. I am not denying that these problems exist, or insinuating that anybody on here has Munschausen by proxy with their horse (or child) ;D but I think this is symptomatic of the times we live in - so much information is available on the net and in the media and some of us are in danger of scaring ourselves silly. This is not aimed at anyone in particular and I do not wish to offend
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Post by tomrabbit on Mar 24, 2012 12:19:27 GMT 1
I was thinking about this thread when I woke at 5.30 am - strange what you think about in the early hours. Anyway I thought.................................which can quite often be dangerous................ and its probably been said elsewhere in this thread, but horses have survived for millions of years and their physical form has adapted over that time so that they are the ultimate prey animal. In the wild they rarely do more than walk as they need to conserve all their energy for that moment when the mountain lion attacks - then they gallop. Granted they walk over 20 square miles daily in search of forage but maybe their bodies/joints/ligaments etc have developed over the years to be walkers with the odd bit of strenuous stuff thrown in. Therefore, and my point finally is...............................are our horses bodies suited for intense, frequent exercise or is it detrimental as evolution has made them an ambler albeit a beautiful, graceful ambler! I know through selective breeding we have attempted, in some cases, to make them more athletic but maybe its just the arrogance of the human race that we feel that we can/need to change these animals from calm, peaceful survivors to mega fit atheletes for our own pleasure. Maybe many behavioural /mental/physical problems are actually caused by the strenuous/unthoughtful/ unsympathetic/unnecessary exercise that is deemed healthy but not actually suitable for an animal that has evolved in the way of the horse! Sorry I'm waffling! Looking forward to your thoughts Thank you for sharing your early morning thoughts, Sandy! I personally feel a lot better now for hearing them, as my normal exercise pattern is daily ambling with the odd canter/gallop! Over eating and lack of exercise, and all the associated health issues are an epidemic of our society, not just our equine care. Our children, our pets and also ourselves. Look at the rise in type 2 diabetes in humans, and obesity is likely to be the biggest cost to the NHS in the not too distant future. It's not just horses whose health is suffering. ps My husband is overfed and underexercised, but I have decided, having weighed up the options, that he would not be better off with a new owner ;D
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Mar 24, 2012 12:45:31 GMT 1
I was saying but didnt type it too well that its not ONLY sore muscles they can suffer from. So, working them past the point where sore muscles become no longer sore muscles isnt always the answer. Because it may be something different. Lisa was saying & rightly so, that horses can be naughty/nappy etc because of sore muscles & we need to get them fit so they are past that point & no longer feel sore. I hope i explained myself better this time. I know only too well they get sore muscles, biologically they are the same as us (you know what i mean)
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Post by 2 bays & a grey:D on Mar 24, 2012 13:00:05 GMT 1
Thats a relief lisa. Thanks. Sometimes you can feel attacked sometimes. Anyway, back to the 'horses are more clever than we give them ctedit for'. Hurray!! I KNOW!! not sure if you read my last message on the metabolic thread.. But i basically said she simetimes moves really lazyily, not using her back end etc. When this first started to happen i backed off thinking something was wrong so, of course she got wise & it became a habit (for a very short time as i too got wise)! In the end i pushed her through it & what do you know, she was fine! She did the same with becky, tail clamped & becky thought she was lame. I took over so she could look at her, pushed her on and what do you know, nothing wrong.
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Post by BJMM on Mar 24, 2012 13:47:21 GMT 1
;D I see now. Just finished night shift and should really be sleeping, not playing on here ;D Biologically I actually think I'm more like my chubby cob than I really should be! ;D
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rowanrachel
Olympic Poster
Life is better when you share it with Horses :-)
Posts: 741
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Post by rowanrachel on Mar 24, 2012 15:02:05 GMT 1
Well I did it! Enthused by all this chat, I hopped on Honey today and we went for our first ever Hack!! ( In a head-collar as still haven't found a bit she'll accept) We even squeezed in a little trot! She was pretty good on the way out striding out in front of her friend Fara (I kept pulling her back to beside her so she could be on the faraway side of the scary fire-breathing traffic) we went about 10mins up the road- stopped to look at the busy main road (but didn't cross) and then turned and came back- she napped the whole way home, zig zagged about the place and tried to eat the grass on several occasions,- but we did it! Goin to try a loop on Monday that doesn't involve turning to come home as she obviously thinks that is a complete waste of her precious time! - she even tried to trot past the road end to avoid turning into the yard and was so slow walking back up the drive I thought I was going to have to get of and lead her! - what does that tell you??? "adventure was over too quick mammy" :-)
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