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Post by specialized on Mar 21, 2012 22:04:59 GMT 1
The other thing worth mentioning is the number of horses being kept for leisure has exploded in the past few years and there are now relatively few horses 'working', and a lot more being kept as pets in conditions that are not necessarily ideal for their wellbeing.
The question of owning horses we do not have time to work is purely dependant on how those horses are kept - stabled and pampered, or living out in herds being horses - horses do not need to work to thrive.
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Post by mandal on Mar 21, 2012 22:06:18 GMT 1
The other thing is this is a forum not a real life area, people tend to come to ask advice, if there isn't a problem there's no mention or question. So I do think internet forums give a skewed snapshot.
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rowanrachel
Olympic Poster
Life is better when you share it with Horses :-)
Posts: 741
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Post by rowanrachel on Mar 21, 2012 22:39:22 GMT 1
The other thing is this is a forum not a real life area, people tend to come to ask advice, if there isn't a problem there's no mention or question. So I do think internet forums give a skewed snapshot. I agree with this mandal- and earlier comments about wishing I could have the time to ride every day- but there's also an issue about what stage your at in training. The nature of this forum and others in general do mean people come to them for support with issues- but many on here may not be at a stage with their horses where they are able to go on hour long hacks. I for one know that when me and Honey finally get to that stage we will be out a few times a week trotting and cantering about the countryside *crosses fingers and touches wood* and I know one day honey will enjoy hacking out immensely- but just now I'm lucky if I can lead her out a ten min walk without a minor freak out! So for those of us who can't take our horses out to do faster work for various reasons (and who's horses would be driven insane doing schooling for that long) I guess we're still going to come across those problems that a larger workload might eradicate? X
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Post by wabuska on Mar 21, 2012 23:23:47 GMT 1
Is the problem here that we're congratulating ourselves on caring and addressing issues that are in some cases a result of poor management, of really not being as good horsemen and women as we think we are? Some traditional values about work to feed ratios would do us good.
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Post by mandal on Mar 21, 2012 23:32:23 GMT 1
Are you saying we should shoe, work and everything will be fine Kanga? That we are in some way reveling in our efforts to solve stuff when we have created it?
I do think many modern ways of keeping horses are not in their best interests, they are shod all year round, fed highly processed feeds and modern grasses but I also think many horses are listened to more carefully rather than just shot if they are a problem.
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Post by limepickle on Mar 21, 2012 23:33:28 GMT 1
I think another issue to add to the "elephant in the room" is that of rye grass pasture. Considering that there are a huge number of horses with laminitis and metabolic disorders, why do so many seed companies insist on shoving kilos and kilos of the stuff in supposed horse pasture mixes? It was developed for gaining weight in cattle (meat and milk production) because of its high sugar content. The horses of yesteryear survived on meadow grass - and the hay made from that - and laminitis was practically unheard of.
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Post by Mellymoo on Mar 21, 2012 23:36:12 GMT 1
This is a great thread! I have been working Jos for the last couple of weeks - 3 or 4 fast hacks each week, with lots of trotting and some cantering, and some schooling as well. He is already thinner, as his girth goes up one more hole than last week. Of course, I now have fab people to ride out with and lots of offroad hacking (which we can still be out on when it's dark as there is no roadwork), so riding is fun for us again. He is on the bare minimum of feed to get his arthritis supplements down him, and hay when he is in. He will be coming in at night all year, as I feel that time off the grass will be of benefit to him. Our livery is on a cattle farm, so the grass is rich and I need to try to limit this if possible. My YO says that with proper work he will soon be slimmer - he is already a lot fitter after just two weeks.
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Post by wabuska on Mar 22, 2012 0:12:16 GMT 1
No, no, not revelling, not at all Mandal. I mean well meant but misguided in creating a problem we then have to solve. There are a lot of 'pet' horses, that are overfed and loved to ill health. Plenty of cats and dogs too! Where did I talk about shoeing? I never discuss shoes Mandal, not my area. Feed to work ratio is at the heart of all this.
In terms of NH, I think paddock paradise is a brilliant solution to the problem of horses (intended for scrubby uplands or desert conditions) being out on rye grass. I would love to try it here. We can't just gallop our horses into good condition.
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Post by mandal on Mar 22, 2012 0:18:34 GMT 1
No, no, not revelling, not at all Mandal. I mean well meant but misguided in creating a problem we then have to solve. There are a lot of 'pet' horses, that are overfed and loved to ill health. Plenty of cats and dogs too! Where did I talk about shoeing? I never discuss shoes Mandal, not my area. Feed to work ratio is at the heart of all this. I'mglad to read that kanga. I mentioned shoeing in a separate paragraph as something we do these days that wasn't done years ago. It wasn't in response to your post but a general comment. You don't need paddock paradise as you work enough and feed right. ;D
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Post by marychick on Mar 22, 2012 0:26:14 GMT 1
Dont get me wrong I see your point to some extent but I think if problems were solved as easily as "ride them more" people like Montry and Kelly would have sold far fewer books..... Obviously people should feed in proportion to their workload and I do think horses should be kept mentally stimulated but if you're not a particularly good rider/ lack understanding/ horse or rider have physical issues etc etc (the list could be extensive) then riding more would actually probably be detrimental- likewise if your horse isn't enjoying their work then I'm not sure how just doing more of the same thing would be helpful? I would also like to point out I consider my horse a pet- I have no professional reason to keep her and she would not be sold if she could not be ridden. This does not mean she is overfed etc and she has no issues that have been caused her "pet" status. Just to play devils advocate
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Post by rifruffian on Mar 22, 2012 0:27:50 GMT 1
The essence of the OP is that to achieve improvements in equine 'bad behaviour', a useful element is hard physical work; and that on this DG, that is rarely addressed. The OP is right and kudos for reminding us all about that.
( Same idea can be usefully applied to humans too ! )
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Post by marychick on Mar 22, 2012 0:35:50 GMT 1
The essence of the OP is that to achieve improvements in equine 'bad behaviour', a useful element is hard physical work
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Post by marychick on Mar 22, 2012 0:36:39 GMT 1
dont know what happended to my quote there! hehe
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Post by mandal on Mar 22, 2012 0:41:09 GMT 1
Modified to add in response to rif. I agree but if you have a bronco hard work is HARD to achieve. I have a feeling my bronco didn't get that way through lack of hard work, in fact I suspect hard work is part of the reason he is that way along with unsympathetic handling and tack/harness. I keep him as a pet, in the past he would probably have been shot, perhaps I'm wrong... I could have sold him to a rodeo rider to cure him, perhaps I should have done that? I will own to causing overweight in two of my horses, I have learned from it and work hard to keep their weight under control. In the end we are back to education and with more new owners and born agains like me, lots of horses are in the hands of less experienced people. For me this is far from all negative.
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Post by wabuska on Mar 22, 2012 0:42:51 GMT 1
Hi Mary, I made the work 'pet' seem disparaging. Sorry about that. What I meant to suggest, that horses don't do well if they are coddled like pets. Ooh gawd, my horses are pets, but they have the needs of livestock and work which is very different to what my dogs and cats need from me. Mandal, I would LOVE the pony to do some of her own exercisingwith a PP and once she's down from the hilly winter badlands and the grass is in, she's being put in a nice winding corridor. I'm exhausted!
I think many of us are not aware what a fat horse looks like as over 60% of leisure horses are fat, and we've grown accustomed to seeing a well covered horse (too well) and considering it healthy and well tended. That grey connie in my sig' was a bit fat to my eye when he left here, but when I saw him being evented a few months later as he was in the picture, I realised how delusional I had become. Slow creep of fat onto a native. I had no experience of keeping a native and was blimin' lucky not to have given him laminitis. His behavioural issues were eliminated by more work and a busier yard.
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