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Post by laurac on Sept 19, 2011 10:16:19 GMT 1
Was clearing out my garage yesterday and came across a brand new dropped noseband which i never used! I understand that they were developed by the spanish riding school and used on the young horses Who likes the drop noseband? Do they help a young horse to relax its jaw or is it just another bit of 'kit' to clamp the horses mouth shut?
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Post by mags on Sept 19, 2011 13:55:41 GMT 1
They are quite common in the Icelandic horse community. IMO, a noseband is a noseband is a noseband... You can strap the mouth shut with it, or not, depending on how it is used. I don't understand how any noseband would enable a horse to "relax the jaw". The only problem I see with the dropped noseband (vs. other types of noseband) is that the horse needs a sufficiently long mouth so the noseband can be fit high enough not to restrict the nostrils (not rest on the soft part of the nose), but also not pull up the bit in the mouth. For that reason, I prefer a normal cavesson, if I feel the need to use a noseband at all.
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Post by donnalex on Sept 19, 2011 13:59:44 GMT 1
I use them because most ponies go well in them adjusted properly. They do help them to relax the jaw for sure. I thik it works because when they yawl on the bit the noseband front reacts on the softer bit of the nose and because at the same time the back strap puts gentle pressure on the curb groove. As soon as they soften then it all goes away so in good hands the nosebands are self rewarding. If a curb chain can help them relax their jaw then why not a noseband in the same place?
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Post by lisap on Sept 19, 2011 14:32:26 GMT 1
I make no apology for the fact that the dropped noseband is my very favourite piece of riding kit, and sadly overlooked as a useful training aid. As pony-nutt says, a correctly fitted drop noseband in the right hands will actually encourage a horse to soften it's jaw. It will also hold the bit correctly in the mouth so that the bit acts on the corners of the mouth rather than on the bars of the mouth. Yes, it will also encourage a horse to be lighter in the hand if the horse has a tendency to yaw down onto the bit and cross its' jaw (am assuming that it is habitual and not as a result of a bad hand). As far as fitting it is concerned: I tend to have my dropped nosebands made for me as too often they are too long in the nosepiece and too short in the curb strap. It is better to fit the noseband so that you can at first get your finger between the curb strap and the jaw, then shorten the headpiece so that the noseband sits higher on the nose on the bony part of the nose.
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Post by laurac on Sept 19, 2011 14:49:08 GMT 1
I make no apology for the fact that the dropped noseband is my very favourite piece of riding kit, and sadly overlooked as a useful training aid. As pony-nutt says, a correctly fitted drop noseband in the right hands will actually encourage a horse to soften it's jaw. It will also hold the bit correctly in the mouth so that the bit acts on the corners of the mouth rather than on the bars of the mouth. Yes, it will also encourage a horse to be lighter in the hand if the horse has a tendency to yaw down onto the bit and cross its' jaw (am assuming that it is habitual and not as a result of a bad hand). As far as fitting it is concerned: I tend to have my dropped nosebands made for me as too often they are too long in the nosepiece and too short in the curb strap. It is better to fit the noseband so that you can at first get your finger between the curb strap and the jaw, then shorten the headpiece so that the noseband sits higher on the nose on the bony part of the nose. Thanks Lisa, do you know if they should be used with bits with cheek pieces or can they be used with for example a hanging cheek french link?
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Post by jennyb on Sept 19, 2011 14:52:45 GMT 1
They can be used with hanging cheeks and eggbutt cheeks - the SRS just favour the full cheek snaffle.
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Post by laurac on Sept 19, 2011 14:58:07 GMT 1
thank you jennyb
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Post by wabuska on Sept 19, 2011 15:06:45 GMT 1
Laura, how can holding the mouth shut encourage a horse to relax its jaw? Can you clarify that for me?
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Post by lisap on Sept 19, 2011 15:21:19 GMT 1
Let me jump in and try to answer that one for you, Kanga. Assume you are sitting at your 'puter. Open your mouth as wide as it will go. Feel the tension in your jaw, and entire mouth, and feel your inclination to stretch your neck forward and raise your chin. Now grit your teeth and really clamp your jaw shut. Feel the inclination to compress your throat. Still horrible! Now just sit and allow your jaw to be soft, not doing anything. Much more pleasant altogether. The action of the dropped noseband - when fitted correctly and used correctly - is not to clamp the mouth hard shut, but to allow the jaw to sit in a relaxed fashion. You will see horses still perfectly capable of sucking on the bit and chewing softly. It does not allow the horse to go to either extreme of wide open mouth or tightly clamped mouth and fixed jaw(which is the action of the flash noseband and crank cavesson by the way, which is why I never use those particular torture weapons). The dropped noseband is useful for ironing out 'habits' or preventing them starting. (I am not talking about horses that open their mouths to avoid pain from bad hands here). Once the horse is sufficiently established in its way of going, then the dropped noseband can be removed and either not replaced with any noseband, or a loosely fitted cavesson to make the horses' head look pretty. All the horses and ponies in my banner were all in dropped nosebands at certain points in their education, but as you can see, they have all 'graduated' from those particular training wheels.
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Post by laurac on Sept 19, 2011 15:25:31 GMT 1
thanks for answering kangas question lisap I didnt have a clue if it did that or how it worked but had read it is supposed to help a horse relax its jaw so thanks for the explanation
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Post by mags on Sept 19, 2011 16:12:30 GMT 1
I'm still not sure I understand how the noseband would make the horse relax its jaw. If it wants to chomp down and clench its teeth, how is the noseband going to stop it? If it wants to really open its mouth wide, the noseband will stop it from getting the mouth quite as widely open as it might otherwise, but would that really stop the horse from trying (and thus being tense)? I have nothing against properly fitted nosebands, but I always thought that getting a horse to relax the yaw is down to a good hand and educating the horse's mouth, not a particular piece of kit.
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Post by lisap on Sept 19, 2011 16:37:13 GMT 1
You are quite right, Mags. There is absolutely no substitute for the good hand and education of horse's mouth. And no, the dropped noseband will not stop those horses who clench their jaws tight shut all the time. It will, however, stop those horses who fix their jaws open, which will prevent the rider from being able to have a conversation down the reins with the horse. There can be times in any horse's education where the horse would prefer not to work hard, and will quite naturally use a variety of avoidances. Now, we could get into a whole philosophical discussion of whether a horse should be 'made' to do things it would prefer not to do and that is a whole other topic. I will, on occasion use a piece of tack that will avoid certain habits that most young horses develop at certain points in their education, and fixing the jaw open and yawing against the bit is a common phase. It doesn't happen with every horse, but a drop noseband prevents the thing happening in the first place. Now, I am not advocating that everyone should use one, or any noseband, just saying that I personally find it a very useful piece of tack when training a young horse, and a godsend when dealing with a remedial horse that has got into the habit of throwing their heads and opening their mouths against the riders hand. (And yes, this is usually because the poor beast has had a terrible time in the past with pain in the mouth.)
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Olivia
Olympic Poster
Sparrow's Flight
Posts: 533
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Post by Olivia on Sept 19, 2011 19:04:04 GMT 1
I use one on sparrow, as lisap says, to stop the EXCESSIVE mouth opening to avoid real work. For instance it is much easier for him (as a schooled and 'senior' pony who knows life's tricks ) to evade when asked to do something that would require more effort, e.g. collection or lateral work. Even though this doesnt involve the hand, by opening the mouth the whole connection fails and he is technically hollow, rendering him incapable of complying to my aids. I have it so I can really easily fit a finger all the way round, and you can easily wobble it up and down on his nose. Unfortunately I have one which doesnt have the spike to keep the nose part up, but it was only 99p off ebay. Seemingly no-one else wanted an ealready warn in pony size
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Post by tikkatonks on Sept 19, 2011 19:12:18 GMT 1
I use them, in fact I use most types of noseband from time to time, I don't believe in sweeping statements about one type being more harsh than another, some horses are happy and go nicely in a flash (shock horror).
As a starting point I use a cavesson but experiment to find what feels the best, as long as nosebands are not overly tight I don't think its a big issue.
Its a shame grackles are not dressage legal as I used to use them a lot as most horses seem to like them.
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