Work and the leisure horse

[mrsmills]

Having read the thread about no turnout during the winter, I was particularly interested in the comments about how turnout was even more important for horses that are stabled and not ridden regularly.

Interestingly, a non-horsey friend who runs a DIY livery yard on her farm was commenting the other day that her experience with horsey folk is that they faff around with their horses, then sit around in the tack room drinking tea and talking about riding, but rarely actually riding.

So do you think that the average leisure horse is exercised enough? Do you think horses were better off when they were worked harder, as in times gone by, and did that lead to less behavioural problems?

And I just wanted to add that this is meant as an interesting debate rather than criticism - I myself have ridden horses, and ponies that are never ridden. I find the time just spent being with my horses valuable, whether I'm on their backs or doing groundwork.

[Yann]

I think your YO may have a point, there are an awful lot of leisure horses out there that don't actually do very much work at all. If they have plenty of turnout and their weight is kept under control then that's fine, but that's not always the case.

I do think most horses benefit physically and mentally from being kept at a reasonable level of fitness and doing plenty of varied work. Too often you see people posting about their horse's weight or metabolism and it often seems to me that working the legs off their horse is often rather low down on the list of advice that gets dished out.

I also think that over fed, under stimulated horses often end up as problem horses.

[mandal]

I suppose liveries are also somewhere to socialize?

If horses get plenty of turnout as Yann says then I don't think 'exercise' is as important. I would say that though wouldn't I! lol
I actually worry about horses taken out of stables, especially when stabled 24/7, and worked. I wonder how much strain this puts on their bodies which have possibly been stiffening and cold due to no movement. Warming up on the lunge also worries me. Round and round in circles on cold legs and muscles.

[varkie]

I think the average horse would most definitely benefit from more exercise, whether living out 24/7, part in & part out, or in.

It also seems to me that these days people don't truly understand the definitions of work. Back in the days when I trained, a horse in light work was usually being ridden every day for about an hour or so, at sensible speeds, with the occasional lesson or competition. Medium work was a horse being ridden every day for one to two hours, with the odd hunting trip out, weekly lessons, weekly competing at RC level. Heavy work was a horse at affiliated competition level, usually eventing or PTPing, working daily for up to a couple of hours, hunted two or three times a week, competed every weekend, lessons two or three times a week, etc.

I can remember horses on the yards that by the above definition were in light work (often tb crosses) were fed less than a scoop of hard feed a day, never more than blanket clipped, and lived largely on hay or grass - and they looked fantastic on it.

I think these days people often over clip, over rug, over feed, under hay & under exercise.

People are often so rude about BHS, but horses kept back then were kept to BHS guidelines, and quite honestly looked a lot better than many do today - they were fit, not fat. People seem to have lost the idea of what a fit horse looks like - if it isn't covered in rolls of fat, then it's too thin. No wonder there are so many problems with laminitis & other obesity related issues nowadays - things we rarely saw back then.

[anastasia55555]

Like others have said horses dont benefit from owners who have a false idea about their work load, and over feed them ending up with things like lami. Also does seem the ideas people have on the appearances of horses has changed. So many just cant see that their horses are obese, to them they are 'cuddly'. Any horse that is stabled continuously, over fed and under exercised is heading for trouble :-(

[petethebee]

We agree with you Varkie. Our horses are rarely worked hard but they are out permanently unless there is a problem requiring confinement. They get bored doing nothing. They are always keen to do things. This weather we walk them around the forest that surrounds us as it's too slippery to ride. The ones left behind look at us going out as if to say "Can I come too?"
As the driving season approaches "Lad" ,Dee's Welsh Cob, is excercised increasingly until he can manage 10 miles of driving on our hilly terrain without trouble.
Exercise helps the feet to pump blood which keeps the legs healthy too.
We don't have a problem with overweight but it is obvious that they lose tone just standing around eating, bit like us.

[Yann]

I'm always a bit wary when people hark to the 'good old days', but I also wonder whether the horse owning demographic has changed, along with people's reasons for ownership? There are always owners on forums who love their horses to bits but are basically a bit afraid of riding them, so don't do a lot.

[varkie]

Ah no, I didn't say they were 'good old days', I merely said that I felt that aspect of horsemanship was better back then.

Many things have improved vastly since then - choices of feeds (very limited then), types of rugs (mostly just canvas NZs back then), choices of saddles (treeless, soft tree, even the varied treed saddles, bits, and the move towards keeping horses out more (there was much emphasis on stabling then) and also barefoot. They were not the good old days, there was good & bad. But I do feel that the balance between work / feed / rugging, etc was better then, and that maybe there was more knowledge in the horsey population then, as most people involved seemed to have done some kind of basic exams / courses or had worked on yards before getting horses.

I think you're right, the demographic has changed, and also peoples reasons for owning horses. But I'm not sure that it's necessarily in the horses best interests! And I'm not someone who came into horses as a child myself - I didn't start riding until I was an adult, but on doing so, after initially taking lessons, I worked on yards, did exams, read books, and shared horses for years before I even considered buying my own. I think sometimes now people jump into buying / owning a horse, without making sure they have the basic knowledge to do so well.

After all, how many nowadays would know the basic formula for what a horse should eat per day? Or how much should be hard feed / hay, depending on work load? Or how to formulate a basic work plan? Horses normal temperature, pulse or respiration? Sadly, the answer is not many - I know, because I asked these questions, and a few more a while back, out of interest, to see how many knew them. Some did, but many didn't. And I find that scary - these are basic facts about horsekeeping. Everyone who owns a horse should know these things.

[lisap]

D'you know, Yann, I think on balance, there may have been more 'good' in the 'good old days' than some people think.

Horses definitely got a lot more work. You never saw fat horses and ponies like you do today. There didn't seem to be the leading issues that are so common, most horses led like donkeys on the end of a jute halter. Hardly anyone had an arena of any description, so most horses and ponies hacked, and hacked and hacked with schooling done in straight lines.

Gadgets, varieties of bits and all this choice of tack, simply didn't exist. Virtually everything went out in a snaffle, with either a plain cavesson or a drop noseband, and martingales seemed to be restricted to the hunting field or serious showjumpers.

We were impressed by seeing someone on a 'big' horse - the big horse being anything over 15.2. Nobody seemed obsessed by getting the 'perfect' horse. We all had horses that whistled and roared, were blind in one eye, dished so badly that you had to leap out of the way when they trotted past you, were knock-kneed or cow-hocked etc etc, and all would do a day's hunting without batting an eyelid, or hack miles to the local gymkhana, compete all day and then hack back without any ifs or buts...

As for stabling, well, there were hardly any livery yards in existence 40 years ago. There were either Riding schools or you kept a horse at or near home. I never knew a single horse that was stabled 24/7 unless it was in very hard work. They either lived out, or were only ever stabled overnight. Hard working hunters were stabled overwinter, but were exercised every day and hunted twice a week. At the end of the season, shoes came off and they loafed about in the field from April until August. Showing folk stabled from Feb until September, and then the shoes came off and the horses and ponies loafed about in the field from Oct to end of Jan.

And we'd never heard of Dressage.... ;D

[spring]

Yes I think there was more good in the "old days" in terms of the amount of work horses had. I think that horses are more accessible now with people getting higher wages. It's interesting that hay and shoes have increased a bit in the last 20 years it's not that much. I certainly don't remember the horses of my childhood getting lami - unless they were shetlands but I do remember alot getting azoturia (sp!) from working hard and then given a day off. In the 7 years I've had Spring on a yard of 60 horses only one has ever tied up with only a select few ever working more than twice a week. Plenty get lami though, and all big horses.

[gordo]

I think if the horse has its basic needs met ie feed, water, adequate space to roam and socialise and shelter then I don't think they need to be worked. We keep them for pleasure, not breeding for meat so isn't it more important that they are mentally and physically 'happy' than ridden for an hour every other day? We don't chase our dogs and cats around to ensure they are doing what nature dictates so if our horses have a good life with the required turnout then whats the problem?

[Mellymoo]

I read all the replies and forgot what the question was

I learned lots from having Hamish (first horse) and have applied this to having Jos. He will be in light work all next year, with perhaps a couple of months of medium work (when we go hunter trialling and do a 20 mile ride!), and will be fed accordingly. I will give him a little hard food when he is in medium work, but he will get no extras (apart from a balancer) the rest of the time.

We very much keep our horses like they all used to be - basically they are roughed off over winter, and come in at night to save the fields and get their feet dried off a bit. They would go mental if they were not turned out for some time each day (apart from Jos, who is happy to hibernate I think ) and it gives them some exercise. They have nothing to eat when they're out, so they run about instead ;D

My YO was in PC when she was young, so we keep the horses according to what she learned there. Works well for us and the horses.

And I've got to here and forgotten what the question was again, so if all that is irrelevant, I apologise

[companymagic]

I think I agree for the most part that people spend a lot more time these days talking horses and riding than riding itself. Me included if I am honest..

I think a fit horse is a health horse. I only have ponies and the looks I get for others when I hack out or have a good lesson on my 13hh Newie. The shock horror that I am working a pony! In my Mum's days of riding Adults on ponies was the norm..

But I would just like to add, that in the "Good old days" Horses rarely made it to an old age, in fact a horse in its teens was rare.. Horses were shot as soon as they couldn't pay their way and everything was working until its was shot..

So I for one will make sure my ponies are worked as much as I and they can but the odd cuppa won't kill either of us :-)

[arabmania]

i do think we seem to hear more about laminitic cases these days. whether its down to knowing more about it OR lack of education v calorie intake and exercise? who knows?
i also think that there are a lot of horse owners who would border on 'an above weight score' as 'looking well'. I did this 'test' on several horse owners a few years ago and that is what i hypothesised.

Going back to the original question about turn out......... i personally think that no turn out is abusive to the flight animals that we have. This is my opinion.
I would rather see horses of any breed out 24/7 than caught up in a stable with owners faffing around about how cold it is!!! Human feelings NOT horses!
water, plenty of hay/haylage, hard feed and regular checks in this weather. non riding is pooooooo but unfortunately its one of those things
once the weather improves mine will be back to fittening work ready for the endurance season. they live out 24/7 so are 'self exercising' but need more IMO.
i class light work as 1-2 hours exercise x 5 days a week.

[jennyb]

I know my own horse likes to be in work, as did my previous horse. Both run up the trailer ramp with ears pricked, keen to go out to their next party. They both stood perfectly to be mounted, then set off for their work calmly and keenly, and concentrate well when being schooled, listening and learning. However, I do go for sharp, clever horses - who therefore thrive on a lot of mental stimulation! I do chat at the yard but NEVER instead of riding or working my horse, that always comes first. I am very driven with my training though - partly because Uncle Francois is back in five months time and will tell me off if my horse hasn't improved, lol!

Today we hacked out for an hour and a half, all roadwork as the off-road riding around here is too frozen, rutted and slippy to risk riding on. Both horses are in regular work, and therefore behaved perfectly in sometimes quite heavy traffic. I definitely notice that mine gets silly and more difficult to handle if he is not in regular work, so I do think that there is something behind the thinking that riders today who don't keep their horses in work tend to have more behavioural problems. Horses bored and full of energy = naughty horses. They make up games to entertain themselves!