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Post by peppertop on Dec 13, 2010 15:17:13 GMT 1
I know I will not be popular for saying this but here goes...... If he is in need of bute for his arthritis then I would question whether it would be fair to enforce him to stay out. I know my old horse certainly wouldn't be happy(has been tried). I don't have a problem with putting a horse down when I can no longer provide what they need to stay comfortable and healthy, what ever its age. If I can find an alternative for them I will, but only if this provides them with better care than I can offer. I don't see them as an item that is no longer useful, I never would, but I also think we can be over emotional about these things. I kept my old pony for 22 years, and she was put down through old age. Last year I had a 16 year old horse put down that could easily have lived for another 10 years, but he could no longer work due to injury. He had issues that meant he could only go out with one other, and not in a big group, like my others. He didn't settle well when not in work and wasn't the easiest to have around. Sometimes you have to take yourself and others into account. In this case for me, it wasn't fair on my mare to have to keep him company when she's happy out with the others. I would never have passed him onto anyone else as I couldn't ensure his future then. Having a horse PTS is not to be taken lightly, but niether is the stress and strain on yourself and family, or other horses in my case. I feel for you, my horses always come first to, and I go without to fund them, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Big hugs, I hope you manage to find a resolution soon.
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Post by gordo on Dec 13, 2010 15:35:43 GMT 1
He will be PTS when he tells me his time his now. When he no longer runs out to the field in the morning, when he stops pulling faces at me when I approach him, when he ceases to be his normal Victor Meldrew THEN I will call time on him bu the is not being PTS just because I am struggling and cannot ride him. Not having a go peppertop, I appreciate your honesty, but I will let him have the time he can and the struggle is my job. I brought him from some dishonest sellers (surprise!!) and he had been hunted into the ground so the dream horse I had planned has never been so but I did vow that he could have an easy life to end his days. The bute doesn't make a visible difference (he has 1/2 sachet a day) but its just to keep the aches at bay, if he was on 2+ a day then it would be a different story. I cannot bear the thought of THAT day but I can assure you that I am a 'day too early than a day too late' owner
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Post by donnalex on Dec 13, 2010 15:50:06 GMT 1
I know it has already been said but if you cant afford feed, bute and wormers then you really have got to sort something out. What on earth would you do if he needed the vet? Keeping a horse on a budget is one thing but keeping a horse on as a tight a budget as possible and not being able to afford that is quite another. You say he is grumpy and like Victor Meldrew well that to me would say the aches and pains are too much thats why Im always a grouch. I honestly think it would be kinder to you, your horse and your family to let him go, the worst of the winter is yet to come
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Post by gordo on Dec 13, 2010 16:04:10 GMT 1
If he needed the vet, he would have the vet what do you think I am??? He has always pulled faces but he is the gentlest soul around, he did it when I first met him and still does now. Not sure how this has gone from struggling with costs of feed to having him PTS! Jeez, thanks for making me feel worse.
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Post by jennyb on Dec 13, 2010 16:16:52 GMT 1
Gordo, Donnalex has just said what a lot of people will be thinking. I know you are upset and emotional, but try not to take it personally, none of this is a personal attack, just people trying to offer helpful advice, which is what you asked for. Tbh, I almost said the same thing, but I know you can sometimes take things to heart so I didn't. When I read your first post I thought the same thing, he's a big horse to keep in food, and if affording his daily bute is a problem, then there are honestly worse things that can happen to an elderly, retired, arthritic horse than being gently pts. I understand if that's not an option for you now, but some people approach these situations with a very practical head on. This doesn't mean that they don't care, or that they are harsh, or that they are judging you - just that they are sharing how they look upon things in case it would help. I think everyone who has posted so far is only trying to be helpful.
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Post by HolsBols on Dec 13, 2010 16:22:35 GMT 1
Im going to say the other side of things now, i had a grumpy mare, with arthritis who pulled the most faces u could imagine. It was the day she stopped pulling faces and became nice that we knew the time was near. Still we could not face it while she had the spark in her eye still. She told us when she was ready, because she went from cantering out into the sunshine (first sunshine in march last year, we knew she didnt have long so she went out without a rug on!!) then 2 days later she was ready. You will know when he is ready to go, and if thats not now then its not now. I think its great that he can have stable door open at night-worst thing for artiritis is to be spent indoors unable to move. I havent got any useful advice with regards to money! missing a couple of wormers i cant see is going to hurt him so badly at his age, and i know a horse that hadnt had a single injection for his 17 years and is fit as a fiddle!! You are doing the best you can honey, breathe and relax! Uve struggled on til now, i know u wouldnt not give him anything that could be detrimental to his health! he's only receiving half a bute a day, thats not a huge amount. He WILL be ok to not receive some... save it for the coldest times when its at its worst and when u can see he's struggling. big hugs xxxxxxxx PS hols says she misses ur chats to her
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izzy
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Post by izzy on Dec 13, 2010 16:26:48 GMT 1
Gordo big hugs for you x Have you thought about asking the charities i know they are struggling too but maybe one of them can take him in.then you will have peace of mind that he is well looked after and be able to visit him :-)
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companymagic
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Post by companymagic on Dec 13, 2010 16:53:49 GMT 1
I feel for you I really do.. I have been there before and the horses have had my last £1..
I had two in retirement at the same time, a 16.1 tb and a massive 16.2 shire X everyone said PTS but I was having none of it for horses that were happy.
Ok Hints and tips.
This is very scary but needs must. BUDGET..
Write it down all of it, that includes everything. Highlight on the list what you could live without if you had too, make sure you have a budget for everything and STICK to it. (Very easy say, hard to do) Little things like carrots nice but not essential, and remember every penny counts.
Feeding: Weight it all. Hay / Haylage etc. Don't do it on sight alone you would be surprised what you need to feed when you do it on weight. Is he a good doer? Could you replace a small amount of Hay with Clean straw (Cheaper than hay) etc.
Feet - Does he need shoes ? Talk to your farrier if he is not shod in the winter could he go one week longer between trims ? If he has shoes does he need a full set ? Could you do with just fronts ?
Worming - A worm count cost about £10 if no worms found and the paddock is cleaned you can look at just tape worming twice a year (ask your vet)
Painkillers - Cider vinegar might help and that’s only about £8 for 5lt (or last time I got any) would that work out cheaper?
Another rug on when its really cold to keep him warm might take away the need for the pain killers ? Or leg's wrapped.
Trips to the yard - Could you work it out with another person there to do one side of the day and they do the other ? So only one trip to save fuel ?
There are just a few on the things I have had to look at in the past for my own when money was VERY tight.
I truly know how hard it is, chin up it's not impossible I am sure you can work it out it will just need careful work.
Wishing you the best of luck x
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companymagic
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Post by companymagic on Dec 13, 2010 17:03:44 GMT 1
Sorry More ideas..
House/Car insurances, house hold bills can you shop about ? You could save money on those (My OH does it all the time). Phone bills? Internet bills is there a cheaper provider out there.
Bank accounts - If you open certain types of accounts with certain banks you get money back (£50) I think for one or £5 a month to stay with them. Might be worth looking.
Are you at a big yard ? Could you offer to do jobs for other for bags of feed or bedding ? Tack clean for example ?
Do you have any skills you could make a few pounds from ? For me I like writting CV's.. Could you charge for things like that ?
Human food shopping, shop around for the best deals (takes ages) but worth it if you can get good deals.
Do you have a bike ? Could you cycle rather than drive ? Fuel is so expensive at the moment I would save about £20 a week if I didn't take my car to the yard that's £80 or more a month!!
Will keep thinking I am sure I have more in here somewhere...
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Post by bertie666 on Dec 13, 2010 17:06:08 GMT 1
Im really struggling too Gordo - not helped by one of the girls my horse is with spending £160 for 5 days of horseage and not telling me how much it is (also premenstrual and very weepy today !) I would really suggest you get him on the Thunderbrooks basemix and bran/oats. So simple and easy, mine is the only one who hasnt dropped weight in this cold despite not having enough hay/forage and im sure it is down to that. Good luck xxx
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potto
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Post by potto on Dec 13, 2010 17:28:08 GMT 1
Hi Gordo... I am another one struggling and seeing the horrible side of life it is really hard to keep your chin above water... This last month the water pipes at my livery burst and water logged my two saddles in the tack room which subsequently froze overnight.... one once defrosted was ok the over was ruined....(the insurance company is proving tricky 'due to atmospheric conditions' hmmmm plus the excess to pay. The livery owner is not sympathetic. Hay is extortionate. I am feeding hay mixed with straw which is also disgustingly priced. rugging more this year too to stop weight loss and feeding more hard feed.. (However... horses around me are dropping like flies with metabolic disorders and laminitis...a number of which have subsequently had to be pts...) So i think in hindsight it is better not to feed extra... and not worry too much if our horses are slightly under (even if they are older or change diets massively.. especially with these fluctuations in weather temperatures we are having.. but keep to a regular balancer keep hydrated and ensure a 'metabolic' correct diet...(which fortunately can be done quite reasonably and cheaply)
I am dropping my IH membership... as i have no saddle to ride with LOL...until i save up again which won't be a priority for a while... i suppose i could sell all my other tack too.... ..to feed them if i need to of cover bills... at the end of the day my family has to come first and all though i love them dearly if i have to let them go to feed my daughter and husband or for them to be looked after better and have good lives i guess i will have to..... you are definately not alone xxx
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orangetails
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Post by orangetails on Dec 13, 2010 17:43:22 GMT 1
After your reaction I feel like I shouldn't post, but I am afraid I agree with everything Donnalex and jennyb have said. You're talking about not being able to afford his base needs like feed, wormers and his bute! None of those things are even particularly expensive, in the grand scheme of things. It looks like from your sig you have a young family... you say of course he would get the vet if he needed it - but at what cost? Horses live 'in the moment' - there are many many worse things than being pts, believe me. And I can't imagine any charity will be able to take him on just because you can no longer afford him, sadly, they are full to bursting point, particularly with non-ridden horses.
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Post by Mellymoo on Dec 13, 2010 17:55:49 GMT 1
I can't really add any further advice gordo, but I know how you feel. I am swapping my labour for feed and haylage, and I am mucking out our yard so I have horse money. It really, really sucks this year :-(
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Dec 13, 2010 18:14:59 GMT 1
Probably not what a lot want to hear but in most cases if you cant afford to keep the horse you cant afford the money required to not have it. PTS is an expensive option but a very final one. Personally I would very gradual move his hard feed to the cheapest own brand cubes and chaff you can buy it might not give him enough calories but then add some cheap own brand veg oil. You can buy a bag of chaff and pony nuts for under a tenner. might not be what he is used to but will keep him alive. Get him out 24/7 if possible well rugged he should be warmer and healthier out anyway he wont stiffen up if he can move around. If not use straw bedding it is cheap enough if he is a bit allergic thern try and get paper from a local office. At home keep household costs down by using ownbrand and two for one offers where possible especially if you know what you like or dont like. Walk where you can and on your own use public transport it is cheaper than fuel and parking for the car if you are on your own. Practically anything meant for horses is more expensive find the human equivalent if there is one. Ask for vouchers as gifts if someone asks what you would like for christmas and birthday you can then get useful treats. Cut out cigarettes alchohol sweets and papers and magazines. Bute can be bought on line cheaper make sure you use a reputable site though it might be a few pence dearer but will be what you are buying you will need a prescription but some vets dont charge others it is only a pound or two and if they know you are broke and going that way they may even if you are a good customer give you it a cost of the internet anyway. Wormer if it is a yard requirement its again chose the one that is cheapest on line so long as it fulfills the YO requirement Cheap versions of pyratape for tape worm and ivermectin for most of the others are available. I use Equimax twice a year and equerell twice a year poo pick daily so the risk of worms is low anyway. I would assume that anything you sell will have cost you far more than you will get and you may one day need it so I would make sure the stuff you are not using is well stored so it is well protected from the weather and it will save you money long term. Been where you are but struggled through with the above practical moves
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Post by BJMM on Dec 13, 2010 18:30:09 GMT 1
have pm'ed you
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