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Post by Kelly Marks on Sept 13, 2010 9:21:55 GMT 1
From ‘Sat on’ to ‘Super’ – the Ideal Training Programme?
I’m writing an article (as above) and would love to have people’s opinions/experiences re. what are the key points they feel make up the ideal training programme for a young horse for his first six months after he’s first ridden safely out of an enclosed area. Would you continue any ground work?
Would you do all hacking? All schooling? What sort of schooling do you feel is most relevant? What sort of hacking do you feel is ideal? What have been your greatest lessons - good or bad? Is there any producer who impresses you the most? What do you feel is the biggest mistake people make? Have you found any schooling aids that are particularly useful – or particularly harmful?
I would love to be able to quote people when appropriate and if I don’t have your real name I’ll use your log in name unless you contact me through the website. I'm going to put this on some other forums as well. I love hearing other people's ideas - it's one of the best things about this 'job'!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2010 10:20:41 GMT 1
For me - it's my daisy rein lol! It's not going to 'solve' his bucking but will hopefully mean I stay alive long enough to find the cause and solve the problem! Long lining it absolutely key for me, I have found it has so many uses for my youngster. It gets him used to the ridden rein aids, plus contact on his sides. It allows me to build up his faster work without me getting in his way. But most importantly - out of the arena it teaches him to be brave and walk out in front of me instead of hiding behind me. I think it helps them to learn that even though you're behind them, you're still there and are still supporting them so when you ask them to hack out it's not such a big step
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potto
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I have a large spotty and the privilage once of the most beautiful big Ass!
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Post by potto on Sept 13, 2010 13:39:03 GMT 1
Excellent... btw.. much better listening post this issue fab articles.. really really super. Look forward to this article too.
Right Mr Bugs has gone from basically sat on and resentful bucking.. resistant in nature and unable to lift feet be tied up away from herd, stabled, travel.. etc your basic total nutter...needing complete restarting to being placed 6th in his first ODE, doing fun rides, being brilliant and fabulous (even if i do say so myself as i love the cheeky bones of him)
What it has taken.. Is Time and patience ( i have taken 3 years now but i had no facilities like arenas no travel, no money and no help and have had to scrimp and save on the way..... Making sure you are not in a rush to complete anything and ending everything you do no matter how small positively and build all the time on the small steps.
I think introducing your horse to as much as possible as confidently as possible.. being sure that you do it the right way. sometimes if you have done ground work you don't do it as you would ride... even if you longrein... make sure even with traffic you don't always act submissive and pullover or stop... you will always have a horse that stops or worries... or runs for gateways....
Prepare your horse to cope in the 'real world' not some fairy tale vision of what we would want the world to be... by that i mean, you may not want to use a whip.. but if he is to be sold on he may have one used.. he will see them used at shows... think about it! Think about martingales, nosebands, training aids..... all that may be used if sold on... could he/she deal with it...Politely and without becoming deemed aggressive, bad mannered and dangerous.. has your training progressed to that level of balance that your horse dosen't need training aids as is the modern trend and can you keep your horse until it matures into a graceful creature with perfect grown up manners?
Be humble and prepare to accept when you are not progressing at any point, get help from a source that knows at that stage ... don't be arrogant.
Every mistake you make is fantastic because it means you are both learning together how to cope when things go wrong and survive.. it is confidence building!
Most importantly make sure in all your training that your main agenda how ever driven you are is for your horse to be happy and self confident.... without that it is very hard for him to progress and learn if it means taking a back step sometimes when your horse is in pain then do so.. there are going to be times when he is not confident or you but carry on anyway this way your relationship or trust comes from doing and learning, always being there thru thick and thin, and that is the journey you do together so make it a happy one...
I have had to do schooling, hacking, stand and watch traffic, stable training, travel training, clipper training, hoof,leg handling, long reining, ground work, show jumping, xcountry....
I have had to improve my riding massively and take lessons to make sure it wasn't me holding him back and have found at times it was significantly....(particularly in the first six months) !!!! I have done funrides, shows, combined training, I have done ride and lead.... lots of socialisation........
Mine has been fantastic...
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potto
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Post by potto on Sept 13, 2010 15:57:25 GMT 1
I have been thinking about if i had any special equipment..... urm the dually has been fantastic i still use it now to longline, do in hand oliver wot not ground work stuff with.. early on in the first six months... a walking stick, absolutely invaluable, and my extendable hand, longlines, gloves, decent foot wear hat, body protector.. which i didn't have until nasty fall on road.... don't make that mistake... hmmm. sand bags, duster, balloons, tarpaulin, various excellent reference books, Horse public liability insurance plus other.. but that at the very minimum. A computer for research online networking a great source for advice when isolated... particularly this dg.. jp bits. synthetic saddles with adjustable gullets. odd bits and pieces of leather. proper job gloves. duct tape. baling twine... pipe lagging.... ermmm the odd essential oil.... hmmm that makes it sound really DIY but then i have had to be a little resourceful in my approach...
Oh my favourite piece of equipment other than dually..... can't live without unless really have to.... THE MOUNTING BLOCK!!!! or set of steps from argos... LOL...
To be honest i think it would be very hard to cram a sat on to super in 6 months although it depends what age all the ground work and basics were started at and the facilities and financies you have access to... if alot of stuff has been put in from the age of 2 or more then it could be pretty easy but if you have a restarter at 4 then it could be quite a problem.. especially until the world changes a bit more, but you are the expert here... and i can't wait to see what others say and experience and ideas they have...
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Post by BJMM on Sept 13, 2010 17:58:50 GMT 1
Hi Kelly, what a great idea! I have had my TBx filly, Jasmine, since she was born. She is now 3 yrs and 9 months old. I started her in May and I am thrilled with the way she is going. We do have our own school and I ride her in there for short periods, in walk and trot, working on transitions and turns but I feel that the thing that has benefitted her the most by far is hacking. We hacked out during her first week of being ridden, at first being led, with equine company, then with someone walking nearby, just in case! Then we braved it with her 'nanny', my friend's cob gelding and after a while we even went out alone. Now, 4 months later, she hacks confidently alone, with one horse or in a crowd. She has been across fields, in the woods, on bridleways, lanes and busy roads (with a very bombproof horse next to her!) She has crossed a bridge over a dual carriageway, seen donkeys,pigs, llamas, combines, tractors, flappy England flags and had to go through the worlds scariest farmyard when we went on a little fun ride in August. All this has been done in a very laid back way, she hasn't been pushed beyond her comfort zone but she has been challenged and has amazed us all with the way that she has taken everything on board. She will always be a very sharp, quick and sometimes cheeky girl but she is a very happy and confident mare who thoroughly enjoys her work. She's always first over when I go to the field and shoves her nose into the Dually, raring to go! I daresay we will do lots more 'schooling' in the future, but at the moment I feel she is learning more and having fun by getting out and about.
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Post by sarahbing on Sept 13, 2010 21:04:58 GMT 1
This is a thread that Ill be watching with interest I have a (just) four year old, so I will be pinching all the best ideas to take him from 'sat on' to 'super' He is currently working confidently in the school on long lines, over trotting poles, groundwork, spook busting etc. Ridden, he is safe to mount, walks and trots confidently, turns, stops and reins back. Over the next six months I intend to build his confidence by gradually long lining him out, then hacking in company in a variety if settings. First on quiet lanes, then more open countryside. When he is sufficiently confident and muscled I will even canter him (first on a short uphill slope!!) Things I hope to avoid are rushing him, forcing him into an outline with gadgets, losing my confidence or his. Also feeling any pressure that he should be going out to competitions yet until he is ready. I want his first experience to be fun for both of us. Things I like are consistency in the little things and variety in his training sessions to keep his interest and make his training fun for both of us. To this end I will hack him at least once a week and continue ridden and groundwork in the school, maybe linked to anything we have seen/reacted to on our hacks. I hope to get him used to being with others, passing strange horses and riding away from friends without tension. I also like the idea of working him every other day max to allow for his physical recovery and some latent learning in between training sessions. My aim is to have a confident, happy horse, strong physically and mentally who looks forward to his work. I think the biggest mistake people make is rushing things - a symptom of our modern times. I learned recently that in times gone by, army equine training would involve working four yo four times a week, five yo five times and so on, to give them plenty of time to physically and mentally mature. To much too soon must surely predispose to injury/behavioural probs/pain and just the horse not enjoying life very much?? I think in fairness to many professional producers, they have to show results to the client in a very short time in order to 'justify' their fees. Maybe they should be training their clients as well!! Right, now I have written it all down I better get on with it!
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Post by anastasia55555 on Sept 13, 2010 23:42:15 GMT 1
dont want to ramble for ages, but i know we need to learn to long line to teach bobby.
I would say hacking has helped, he used to get very bored with schooling, hacking was time for plodding along with a friend, seeing new things and keeping his interest rather than switching off. Have found for others that its been a good time to help 'find' paces, as more relaxed and natural rather than having to deal with corners of schools to start off with. Now Bob will allow schooling sessions and will work well, rather than planting and not even moving an inch.
Found leading out in hand good also, get him used to seeing different things that might appear on a hack, and with you being by the side is more of a comfort and reassurance
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Post by lucylucylou on Sept 14, 2010 0:07:12 GMT 1
I think one of the most important things when starting a young horse is to invest in a decent saddle and get it checked frequently as the horse changes shape, every 4-8 weeks to start with.
Too many horses get any old saddle slapped on them as it's 'not worth getting one that fits as they'll change shape anyway' and you end up with a horse that either doesn't learn how to use himself properly as he can't, or is reluctant to because it hurts.
I think lunging is over rated, it's a useful tool for building fitness and teaching a young horse concentration, but once that period is over I tend to leave it, and just long rein when I don't ride.
I tend to try and balance between keeping the horse interested and moving forwards, but not rushing into fast work until the basics are there. Lots of transitions, moving upwards into transitions, pushing off from behind and working correctly. 50/50 hacking to schooling. If you don't school it'll never be there, but young horses need fun and variety as much/more than older horses, so short hacks in different situations (being mid group, behind, in-front, alone etc).
Most importantly listening to the horse, they all have different learning capabilities and confidence, you need to do enough to keep them keen, interested and motivated, but not over-face them at the same time.
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orangetails
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Post by orangetails on Sept 14, 2010 13:12:25 GMT 1
Biggest mistake people make I think is rushing.
I got my mare at 4, but due to some health problems of mine she had a very easy year or two, and only really starting proper ridden work at 6 - we pootled and did a bit of schooling between 4 and 6, but I didn't have transport until she was 6 either so that was limiting. The time to mature did her the world of good mentally - and physically as well. I remember feeling frustrated at the time - there's all these ideals of what a 4/5/6yo *should* be doing, and maybe for an 8 year old she is still fairly green in some people's eyes. But I have learnt to stop making excuses for her green-ness, and actually in the last year she's turned her hoof to pretty much everything including schooling, hacking, fun rides, dressage, SJ and XC, adult horse camp... There's always time.
I've also really seen the value of groundwork prior to backing with my young companion pony. I was given her at 14 months, she's now nearly 3.5 and was lightly backed this summer. She was just the easiest pony in the world to back - partly I think just because she has a wonderful calm, bold temperament, but also partly because since I have owned her she has had exposure to lots of things all in a very 'low key' way - she wasn't worked as such, but came out on ride and lead round the village, did in-hand hacking ditto, went to three local shows for in-hand classes (and all the show prep that entails, standing for bathing etc!) and when I had time she also played in the school with some baby 'lunging', in-hand work over and around poles, and a bit of long-lining (which I am not very good at hence not doing more). She was bitted and bridled as a 2yo so we could go out on the roads, and when it came to adding a saddle and rider, it was just one more mad thing humans do and she didn't so much as flick an ear. Without rushing her at all, within two weeks of being backed she had 'hacked' (round our fields at the yard!) alone and in company, and has done a couple of hacks round the village with a foot soldier and/or another horse too (she's done very little in the school as I feel she's too young for that kind of 'work', whereas a 15-min hack round our quiet village is more interesting for her mentally and better for her physically). She's always happy and relaxed about it, and it has really shown me the value of simply doing little bits here and there, when I have time, rather than leaving them as babies and then doing one block of 'backing' in a short time-span. Obviously there are commercial reasons for that kind of approach, but if I ever have a youngster again, I'll do things the same way, and then it all remains a big game, there's never any pressure, and the actual 'backing' itself is a complete non-event. She's also evolved into the kind of pony that you can just 'pick up and put down', because she has never been 'worked' consistently, she's doesn't now come out too fresh if she has a few days (or a few weeks) doing nothing in the field. So many of these skills will be invaluable in a child’s pony, and she’s kinda learnt them through ‘non-training’ rather than being drilled…
Gadget-wise – I use a simple snaffle bridle with a bit the horse is comfy in, and adjustable saddle as they do change shape frequently, and a neck-strap. On the lunge I do like a chambon as it teaches them to stretch down without restricting in any way, but I didn’t use anything like that for my young pony, everything was done either in a headcollar, or her bridle (starting with a headcollar under the bridle in lieu of the noseband, gradually transferring to rein aids alone). In an ideal world I’d have access to better off-road hacking than I do, and do plenty of that in the early stages. As it is, my hacking is pretty poor so I have to do a mix of hacking and school-work, but there’s ways to make that low-key and more interesting. I think for me the aim is to make it fun, a game, so you end up with a keen and willing young horse who is enthusiastic and confident about learning new things. I think there is great value in continuing with groundwork throughout a ridden horse’s life – I certainly don’t just see it as a ‘means to an end’ when backing. I know many people with adult horses who apparently ‘won’t lunge’ – but it’s such a useful way of working them from the ground, seeing how they move, encouraging them to develop their paces without a rider on board. Same with in-hand work – I taught my mare lateral work in-hand, for example. It adds another dimension to what you do with them.
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orangetails
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Post by orangetails on Sept 14, 2010 13:13:40 GMT 1
Meant to add - I don't think there is anything as 'the ideal training programme'... Listen to the horse - they are all different and some will accept some things easier than others.
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Post by sarahbing on Sept 15, 2010 14:01:31 GMT 1
Just to add schooling aids that I really like, apart form my indispensable dually, is my neue schule starter bit. I can't spell it properly, but I really love it and so does Will, who is a very sensitive boy and is settling with this bit so well. He is starting to reach down for the contact now, instead of avoiding at all costs!!
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Post by Lulu on Sept 15, 2010 21:57:42 GMT 1
Most important thing to teach a youngster is WHOA means stand rock still, and I may or may not just get off. Lena has worked out that standing quietly means I might get off, she used to rush off into walk, but now stands in hope quietly that there endeth the lesson and I might get off.
With our youngsters, we get them used to all sorts of situations...being in front of a horse, behind behind and being besides them, and no rushing off. Anything they are not sure of, we make sure they are happy to investigate it before we go past..Slow and calm work so not to blow their minds when they are babies too is important, unless you want a racehorse LOL !!
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Post by highlanderpony2002 on Sept 16, 2010 16:22:53 GMT 1
Variety is the Spice of life Our youngster is at the moment being ridden away she has been hacked out alone and in company has been to the beach a x country course for a play jumped a round of very low show jumps and been to a little local show. Before she was backed she ahd done very little apart from manners and leading and loading with a little bit of despooking to tolerate a rug as a two year old. She has basically been left to grow up and is now well over 4 and a half. She ahs been intersted and forward all the time is wearing a linked snaffle and a well fitting leather saddle. She will start schooling soon to get her to accept a soft contact and come round but initially all we wanted was forward and enthusiasm. The only thing that really upsets her is longreining she is terrified of them assuming it is electric fencing on her sides. Lunges happily but two reins touching her send her into meltdown
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hmt
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Post by hmt on Sept 16, 2010 16:33:33 GMT 1
Hacking!
The pony I backed last year, we sat on him in the stable day 1, then led around the yard day 2, day three was then about 2 mins in the school to check that brakes worked (including trot), within about 3 days of having sat on him he had gone out for about 5 mins with two rock solid horses and someone on foot (in the school we had established he was happy to follow me around), within a week he was hacking with another horse.
I don’t think any of our youngsters are schooled for at least the first 6 months after backing, unless they are particularly sharp, my boss has raised some of the most laid back well adjusted youngsters you are ever likely to meet.
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Post by ruthp on Sept 16, 2010 16:47:40 GMT 1
Well, I can't claim to have done this myself, but I have known Casper (Trek improver at Sleaford last year) since before he was backed, and Bali and I have been his hacking nanny since.
The things that seem to me to be important are: - teach him to stand still - Allow him time to investigate things (this can backfire a bit if you really need to say "right, just get past it" for any reason, but in general it seems to be a good idea) - lots of low key hacking with a safe quiet, preferably non-competitive companion (non-competitive because you can start developing trot and canter at your own speed without fear of the companion trying to race) - get out and about as much as possible - makes loading the norm rather than some high pressure exercise - the occasional fun ride (with usual hacking companion as reassurance) - Continue a little school work, but avoid lateral work until horse is comfortable and forward in walk and trot. - introduce poles, flags, things to walk over, under etc. - Always ride with a relaxed back and seat - avoid tensing whenever possible as that will give your horse a signal that there might be something to worry about. - Lots of praise. Don't forget, if he gives you the wrong answer, you probably asked the wrong question.
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