Silversons
Grand Prix Poster
Holgado II
Posts: 1,568
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Post by Silversons on Dec 29, 2009 0:13:44 GMT 1
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Caroline
Grand Prix Poster
Intermediate Poster
Posts: 2,277
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Post by Caroline on Dec 29, 2009 1:01:49 GMT 1
I didn't like it. Horse looked tense, moving unnaturally, didn't look like horse was having a good time. If he can't trot his horse 20 yards without sweating it up, I seriously question the horsemanship involved. I know it's very clever and disciplined etc, but what has really been achieved? Is it something we want, admire, aspire to? Maybe at one time, but not now- personally speaking.
I used to like dressage, but what I am seeing now looks like a triumph of man's ego over horses nature.
No offence intended - I know you meant well and were just sharing something you thought everyone would like.
I also realise there is no need to say anything negative or dissenting. On the other hand, when people start expressing a different view, it validates the same thought in others that were beginning to think it. Over time, the goals of horsemanship may change to something more lovely, more natural, with greater training ethics. These traditions of horsemanship only persist because the little people still aspire to what the big people are doing.
If we all turned away from this type of dressage and instead looked at bareback, bridleless, barefoot and violence-free and force-free training...then the stars of the horse world would be showing us some pretty incredible horsemanship. That would have a knock on effect and more ordinary people would begin to have more extraordinary relationships with their horses. I think that would be a beautiful thing.
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varkie
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Post by varkie on Dec 29, 2009 10:55:33 GMT 1
I both agree and disagree with Caroline.
I don't like this horses movement, I consider him to be a leg mover, rather than a back mover - tho even I have to admit that he is an impressive horse - I'd love to see how he would have been if trained differently. And given that he has been trained using rolkur, I believe, I can't condone that.
With the sweating thing, it depends on the level of sweating. I would expect a horse doing dressage to sweat to some extent, as it is working after all - don't we all sweat doing a bit of a workout? Bear in mind he will likely have been warming up for around an hour before doing his dressage test. But excessive sweating I don't like, and tends to show stress or pain.
I'm not keen on the way top level (or indeed competition) dressage is going at the moment, but that doesn't make all dressage bad. I love dressage, and there is some lovely dressage going on out there, you just have to look for it. It doesn't have to be bareback, brideless or barefoot to be beautiful - tho I agree with the violence & force free bit. The whole point of dressage should be to make the horse more beautiful - and that is a key thing when I look at horses doing any kind of work, be in loose work like Jean Francois Pignon or dressage like Edward Gal & Totilas - do I like what I see, not just how technically correct it is - does it make the horse more beautiful?
Dressage does also have a point beyond winning rosettes! Dressage should create a horse that can carry a man better by being stronger where needed, and that will stay sound longer. If worked properly, a horse that has learnt to carry itself under saddle has a better chance of avoiding injury through being worked & ridden than one that goes all strung out.
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Post by mandal on Dec 29, 2009 11:10:55 GMT 1
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Post by troop on Dec 29, 2009 11:37:40 GMT 1
well said varkie xx love the horse though he is beautiful
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Post by rj on Dec 29, 2009 13:37:10 GMT 1
Mmmmm: I thought the horse was lovely, absolutely beautiful, and the riding really was superb - just my opinion - I wish I could sit like that. I have no information on how the horse is trained, and I don't like to see the amount of contact being used, but as far as the various other dressage clips that I've seen goes, this was definitely one of the better ones!
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jol
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,216
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Post by jol on Dec 29, 2009 13:43:30 GMT 1
Horrid.
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Post by mandal on Dec 29, 2009 14:12:23 GMT 1
I can't really comment on the riding really except to say I too wish I was as good! I preferred this that was linked on Heather's facebook group. The horse to me looks fairly relaxed is not sweating or frothing at the mouth, has a more relxed general demenour to me. There is an interview first and it is a routine to music. www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ftScq_bUsI openly admit I'm no where experienced or knowledgeable to 'know' the technical aspects, I can only go with how it looks and feels to me. Btw...Now I really don't like the noise etc. in the stable area for the interview. I suppose the horses are used to it though.
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Post by sandy on Dec 29, 2009 14:35:06 GMT 1
The more I watch 'dressage' like that shown in the video, the more I dislike it. Maybe a sweeping statement but my humble opinion.
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Post by K8 on Dec 29, 2009 14:55:13 GMT 1
I didn't like it either. He looks sad, uncomfortable, and the tension in the reins makes me cringe.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Dec 29, 2009 14:56:10 GMT 1
Totally agree Sandy. I know this is a spectacular horse at the very top of the tree, but does it look a happy, relaxed horse that is throughly enjoying its work ? Not to me it doesn't . Top class Dressage, while once beautiful to watch, now looks contrived to me, and seems to be made up of horses forced into an un natural shape, unable in the main, to use their hind legs properly, (either because of bad conformation or bad way of going ------or both ) looking very uncomfortable in their mouths and head carriage with their necks shortened and their noses nearly on their chest, Not at all a nice picture I'm afraid. And people say top class show horses look bad ?? I know which I'd rather have
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Silversons
Grand Prix Poster
Holgado II
Posts: 1,568
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Post by Silversons on Dec 29, 2009 15:36:36 GMT 1
Ok so some of you really don't like the way the horse has been produced, and yes i would like to see it more relaxed, but......it was still damned well riden, I could ride day in and day out for the rest of my life and still not produce a test that well and if we're being honest....how many of us can??
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Post by K8 on Dec 29, 2009 15:58:16 GMT 1
That may be true, but I'm not sure I'd want to! If any of my horses looked that tense and uncomfy I'd be terribly upset.
Now he may have a good seat, but I'd like to see him ride barebare and without a bridle, I think that is truely beautiful.
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Post by portiabuzz on Dec 29, 2009 15:58:54 GMT 1
i wouldnt want to! Gorgeous horse but i didnt like it
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jinglejoys
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Post by jinglejoys on Dec 29, 2009 16:01:55 GMT 1
One question is...if the rider is so good why can't he see his horse isn't happy?Or...is it worth it,the winning?
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