|
|
Post by zack&buffysmum on Jan 24, 2010 20:01:12 GMT 1
My boy Zack is a 16 year old TB (ex-racer) I have owned him for 2.5 years now. He's my first horse and I'm in my 40's. I was a VERY novice rider when I got him (and yes I DO think that they saw me comming when I bought him!!) - just thought I'd say that before anybody else did ;D About 95% of the time - he is a sweetheart - but if something is not going his way - he can be an absolute s***. My riding has improved no end and I'm much more confident in the saddle than I was when I bought him but mostly when I am having problems - it's in hand. As a general rule - if he's in a bad mood and I'm trying to bring him in or put him out - he'll barge, rear and fly-buck. I'm using a dually at the moment which is fairly effective but what really gets me down is that if someone else takes him for me and simply 'growls' at him - he backs down and comes like a little lamb! I do it and he sort of says 'YEAH? what you gonna do about it then' and does it all the more! Today for example I was going to ride in the school and got him in and tacked him up and we set off up the track for the school. He was in a perfectly good mood and was behaving like a dream. Whe we got to the school - someone was in there having a lesson! (I'd accounted for all horses and people on the yard and decided that the school was free, but it was a relative of the YO in there, who dosen't keep her horse at the yard) SO we turned round and headed back - and he started!!  He barged and shoved and kept stopping and attempting to graze. I got him back to the stable where he calmed down straight away but I decided that he needed to do SOMETHING and took him in the lunge paddock. That went down like a lead balloon! He was in a hell of a temper and flew round and round on the lunge snorting and bucking. I THINK I should have let him keep going till he was worn out and decided to stop by himself - but I was worried about him slipping over and doing himself an injury So I ended up atttmpting to bring him in while he was still in this state and so got all the usual behaviour - during which I got the lunge rein caught round two of my fingers - so when he reared ... well lets just say they look like two very fat sausages at the moment and they hurt like hell!! I would like to say that I have NEVER hit this horse - some people at my yard say this is the problem - he thinks I'm a walk over and he has never ( well not in the last year or so!) got out of work by this sort of behaviour. In fact when I have ridden him after this sort of stuff - he's actually been as good as gold. I need some advice on how to deal with him when he's in this frame of mind and how to make him respect me. sorry it's been bit of a waffle. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2010 21:43:09 GMT 1
I'm sorry to put on the cracked record again...  Please consider calling out an RA. It sounds like you might need some work on your leadership skills. There may be other things going on too, but at the moment it sounds like he sees himself as above you in the decision making stakes, and you need to reverse those roles NOW! The Dually is great, but it's best used with good timing and lots of perception. Scuse the pun, but at the moment you're trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted. You need to learn to communicate with him before he takes action, rather than when he's in motion and strong. One session with an RA will give you so many tools to help this. Do consider it. |
|
|
|
Post by june on Jan 24, 2010 22:05:32 GMT 1
I'd second LizP's advice. RAs aren't there just to solve the problem, although they can do that too. They are fantastic at transfering skills to the owner so they can deal with the issues themselves in the future. It really is an excellent investment.
|
|
rosi
Olympic Poster
Olympic Poster
Posts: 932
|
Post by rosi on Jan 28, 2010 14:01:09 GMT 1
I wonder if some of the problems that you are having are inherent to ex racers. There is one on our yard who apparently had a history of aggression to some degree, before he got to his new owner.
He is extremely fortunate in that his new owner has a lovely quiet way about her, but in some ways it makes it all the worse when he has his temper tantrums. These tantrums seem to be diminishing over time, in both severity and frequency, but when they happen they manifest themselves as agressive lunging at the handler - with teeth!
I can completely understand how occasions like these will eat away at confidence - but I really would go down the RA route as well. Sometimes a fresh perspective and a new pair of eyes is all we need.
|
|
|
|
Post by zack&buffysmum on Jan 29, 2010 10:35:03 GMT 1
Hello again, thanks to everyone who has replied. I probably will try an RA at some point Liz but money is a little thin on the ground at the mo! :0/
Rosi - the situation with the horse on your yard does sound very similar, the main difference being that Zack, when he gets REALLY wound up, tends to try and use his back feet rather than his teeth!!
I must admit my confidence is on the floor at the moment - sometimes we'll go for weeks or even months with no problems at all and I'll be feeling on top of the world then suddenly something will upset him - he'll throw a wobbly and my confidence will evaporate and he seems to know that and will be 'difficult' till I get a grip of myself again.
I've been using Bach flower remedies on both of us and i'm convinced they help.
Yesterday a friend at the yard (when she realised how low I was feeling) said that I 'do amazingly well with him, all things considered and 99 people out of a 100 in my position would have sold him within the first year!' but I believe that a horse, like a dog, is for life so that's not going to happen. I will say that when he does get like this it's almost always in the winter - in the summer he is the most laid back horse on the planet! I changed his feed about a year ago to cut out sugar and molasses - and that made a noticable difference.
Anyway thanks again for your comments and I will see about an RA when funds permit.
|
|
rosi
Olympic Poster
Olympic Poster
Posts: 932
|
Post by rosi on Jan 29, 2010 12:18:08 GMT 1
I think, from what you have said, you really should give yourself a break. It is so much easier to think that you are failing, rather than admitting that you are getting somewhere, albeit sometimes in little steps. Accept the setbacks and move on again. I try to - and I know that I am going to have to keep listening that that piece of advice with my youngster.
Livery yards can be the best and worst of enviroments - if there are supportive people around then they are great - if not, it can be like hell on earth - I've learnt that one as well!
I think that taking all the sugar out is a good move and it is excellent if you can see results with this. Have you tried magnesium at all? It might be a good preparation for the spring grass coming through as well, when the excess sugar can light them up a bit. You could buy this quite cheaply from Ebay - might be worth a look.
The other thing that I wondered was whether lavendar oil might help calm both you and Zack? I remember reading in one of Kelly's books about it - might be worth a Google, might be worth planting some in your garden.
When you can, I think that an RA visit would be wonderful - when you have the chance - and would probably really help your confidence.
|
|
blueali
Olympic Poster
water horse vs. land horse
Posts: 822
|
Post by blueali on Jan 29, 2010 22:05:50 GMT 1
It sounds like you're actually doing a pretty good job. In the absence of being able to get a RA for a while I second the magnesium. Blue used to get rather scarey when ridden in the winter despite living out and not really being fed, whereas in the summer the occasional exciting thought quickly went she would just escalate no matter what I did. Someone on here also suggested keeping a diary of everything - the weather, what rug, where ridden etc. which really helped.
It does sound like a confidence/authority problem. Groundwork could really help, work on perfecting simple movements like back up or turn on forehand with an almost invisible cue. With Blue this also gave me a useful tool, as soon as I felt her start to blow up I would get off and just start a groundwork routine, because she was so used to then having to focus intensely on me she would calm down.
Blue is the expert on equine social heirarchy problems. Her first tactic is to completely ignore the hooligan horse (afterall she only wants civilised friends and she knows how to manipulate the humans). If it continues to interfer with her peaceful lifestyle she lets them know she is big and scarey. I cannot think of a time when she actually made contact with another horse, she just makes them believe she will. This is just like the people on your yard growling at him - he has to think you mean it. When Blue does need to really tell a horse its behaviour is unacceptable her demeaner and movement is in complete contrast to her normal manner, big and quick and sometimes noisey. She'll get as far as reversing bunny hopping into them or putting her teeth on them but not actually kicking or biting, I think she says to them she could if she wanted to but has deceided to let them off. So you see its not necessarily hitting that your missing just Zack thinking there is a possibility it might happen.
I obviously spend hours studying Blue's herd behaviour and it works very well when turned back on her. Generally when she has done something really naughty when I'm on the ground I jump and shout and wave my arms so she thinks the world may be coming to an end for about 3 seconds, then I ignore her and handle her in a robotic fashion.
Try to think of irritating, incompatible behaviours to make him do. For example if you are at his shoulder making him back up he'll find kicking particularly difficult. Barging, rearing and bucking are all quite difficult when being pulled in a small circle.
Always make sure you are not in danger, and just try to take small steps.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sue Palmer on Jan 30, 2010 18:43:38 GMT 1
The trouble is that most instruction available to us is for ridden work only, there are few organisations other than IH that offer readily available, affordable instruction in groundwork. It sounds as though you would really enjoy improving your groundwork skills, and you'd probably find that your new abilities carried forward into your ridden work. I'd suggest contacting your local RA to find out how much a session will be, so that you know how much you are working towards saving, and then make a start on the Foundation Exercises in Kelly Marks book Perfect Manners. Also, if you can, come along to one of Monty's demos - there's plenty of tips at those!
Sue
|
|
|
|
Post by arabheaven on Jan 31, 2010 10:36:53 GMT 1
well doen for sticking with him. I have to say when you do have funds, definitely get an RA out.
The thing to remember is if he behaved like that in a herd, the lead horse would put him back in his place. You have to act like the lead horse. Firstly, you need to control his movements so if he is coming into your space, ask him to back up, if he doesn't respond you need to increase the pressure and release it when he DOES back up. He will learn over tim and you will need less and less pressure.
Secondly, all his behaviour need a consequence. Whether that be good behaviour receiving praise or bad behaviour receiving punishment. Obviously I am not saying go and beat your horse but you MUST make sure YOU are the leader and YOU are in control xxxx
|
|
|
|
Post by sandy on Jan 31, 2010 14:31:55 GMT 1
Good for you for sticking with him. Its scary when they start acting up - they are such big and powerful animals.
I have to echo everyone elses advice re getting an RA out when funds permit. I'm in my 50's (not that thats relevant really) I consider myself a novice owner and I bought a 3 year old last Septmeber. RA Sue Palmer has been out to see us twice and those couple of hours have been invaluable. I didnt really have problems with the youngster more confidence issues and learning body language for me.
Good luck and keep us posted.
|
|
|
|
Post by suze369 on Jan 31, 2010 22:39:58 GMT 1
I can echo the good advice above about getting a professional to give you guidance and support. I know it is an expense but if you can save up it will be such a boost for you both and save you from potenially having confidence sapping exeriences.
I also have an ex-Racer and we have to remember how smart the breed is and how much energy they have, they are born athletes after all.
My boy is usually a sweetheart but there have been occasions when he has felt leaderless (all my fault) and reacted by trying to become dominant. I have always reverted to groundwork. He is very good at it, having attended the 5 day Foundation course with me. And lets face it probably came top of the class after getting all the compliments and learning what to do with me!
Good luck
X
|
|
