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Post by mags on Dec 16, 2008 6:35:33 GMT 1
I think Jack's problem is just going to be the fact that he seems to find life really scary. He is super friendly and is very willing to try. Yesterday he charged down the field to me when I went up, he is definately a ppl person but the whole time he jumps out of his skin. If his feed bucket so much as makes a noise he jumps in the air lol
But for all his sharpness(WAY sharper than dan) where are alot of things he is confident about that I wouldnt expect from a sharp horse so I'm feeling if he can get his confidence he would be a different horse.
ATM iv no doubt that his ridden problems are 99% down to his nerves.
So thats the plan, work on building his confidence. All advice needed! ;D
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Post by jennyb on Dec 16, 2008 7:54:38 GMT 1
Is he on a MgOx supplement yet? That would be my first priority! Then it's just down to time and building trust, lots of groundwork and manners work in the school, progressing to walks out in hand so he can see the world and gain experience. Patience will pay off, I'm sure!
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Post by wabuska on Dec 16, 2008 8:22:33 GMT 1
I'll bet when he settles into your herd and gets to see your calm, consistent leadership he'll be a changed lad. Flynn used to scream like a foal when left alone and leap at the sight of a body brush coming out of a trug. We can now ride out in gunfire. It's really early days. What is his past Mags?
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Post by peppertop on Dec 16, 2008 11:28:50 GMT 1
Hi Mags,
Make sure also he isn't sore, get a physio out to see him. I find that out of all the horses that come here, the jumpy ones are the ones that are hurting. I know you'll do all the right things diet wise and will give him confidence in you. The other thing to consider is ulcers, try giving him some human ranitadine and see if that helps. Its one way of checking without having to have them scoped, although you can only treat them with Gastro gard. The other thing can be Epsm! Sorry don't want to scare you and all the above is sortable, I just thought I'd tell you all my findings then you can have a think! I just find from experience there is always a reason!
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Post by mags on Dec 16, 2008 19:39:12 GMT 1
He's on mag ox atm and would hope that would make a difference but unfort none yet but just been couple days. Physio and dentist are on the cards before he actually starts doing anything but letting him settle before throing anything at him that may scare him. Not thought of ulcers but will give the a try too.Thinking of giving Jenny's lady a go as she is local. Vet is coming on sat as well so will see what he makes of him.
Kanga something is missing in his past. One home says he was confident and bit pushy and then all the others say he was terrified but noone is owning upto where it started.
I accidently scared him today when feeding him and pulled away really quick and took off down the field. Funny bit was when I got him back he didnt quite want to come close so he picked up his bucket and moved it away from us to eat lol. Was fine and friendly again after few minutes though.
What other symtoms does EPSM have, dont worry i'm not scareable these days about these things lol I bought him thinking there has got to be something cos he is just to perfect lol Im just hunting for what it is atm
Modified to add briefly he came from melton sales,then went to someone who he was too much for, then went to a 15 yr old girl who couldnt ride him before going to the lady who I got him from who improved his confidence loads, he is nervous now but apparently was 10o times worse and would just shake at the sight of people.
Before melton sales he had apparently been in the same home since a baby and was at the sales as livery dept but that cant be right as the vets that did his identification for passport are in wales
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Post by annabelle h on Dec 16, 2008 20:04:27 GMT 1
Echo the physio & vet - a client's horse proved to have ulcers despite never having had a pressured life. It's amazing what they can hide physically.
Sounds like he is only nervous of certain sounds/movements? So a bit of detective work needed to find out what the triggers are. Think you may as well do all the basic foot-moving and spookbusting work and just note where the trouble spots are and work on them.
How about doing some basic confidence building with him. Working with advance & retreat until you can touch him all over with your hand with him totally relaxed & on a loose lead rope, and same again with another object, eg cloth - mildly different but not actually scary - again just gently stretching the comfort zone until he is always relaxed with it. Then you can work up to rubbing a Tesco bag all over him. Gives him some practise at dealing with scary things in a more constructive way.
Later perhaps some tarp spookbusting etc - but depends how you feel he is settling in.
Also being very clear about boundaries on the ground so that he is reassured that you are in charge. But I think you know most of that!
HTH
Annabelle
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Post by mags on Dec 16, 2008 20:13:41 GMT 1
He is totally relaxed about been handled rugs etc with out batting an eye lid and he walked through town fine without spooky yet if you move unexpectedly he can take fright. He'd been so good I wondered what all the fuss way about, then I just moved suddenly and he was gone. Ops thats why lol. He can certainly go if you scare him. I can see why he is a sit quiet and he is fine horse. And he isnt so bad that I would worry about riding him and sitting quietly. But obviously thats not the way I want to go, id like to sort the issue first.
Wish I could find where it started and someone owned upto it it would make it so much easier
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Post by peppertop on Dec 16, 2008 20:25:48 GMT 1
I didn't think you'd scare easily!! Are you thinking of jenny's physio, if so she is excellent but on maternity leave! Kathryn who does some work for her tho is very good and she is around your area regulary. I'd be suprised if Mag ox does help as he is ok in certain situations and wrong time of year for it to be too much of a prob. I read up about Epsm after a few clients and a livery, have horses with it. Symptoms are quite wide ranging and there are many different muscle myopithies that aren't epsm but can be treated the same through diet. I am experimenting with one of ours at mo who is similar in the jumpy stakes to your Jack, funnily enough he's Jack too! He's on a high oil diet and he does seem less twitchy on it.I read a few stories about horses that were on edge and nervous being diagnosed with this so its worth considering. I'm guessing he's had a pretty tough time somewhere,but your more than capable of dealing with that side of things!
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Post by mags on Dec 17, 2008 5:44:47 GMT 1
Not sure bout Jack, too soon to tell alot of the stuff, I didnt want to stick him on lunge or anything till I had abit more trust, but i swear my old mare Izzie who has string halt had lots of those
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Post by mags on Dec 17, 2008 7:12:50 GMT 1
Do you mean Katherine Rees Ruth? Hope so cos just emailed her lol
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Kerryf
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 2,615
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Post by Kerryf on Dec 17, 2008 11:35:45 GMT 1
Mags, to book Katherine you need to ring Sune and she will book you in. I don't think you can contact Katherine direct. Jenny will know for sure though. I had Katherine out to Shad at the end of the summer and she was fab. Spent 2 hours with us so she is very thorough.
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Post by annabelle h on Dec 17, 2008 12:18:40 GMT 1
Do think about the touching all over exercise - I am certain that you will find places he doesn't like to be touched, or where he is uncomfortable with quick movements close to his body. If you can work through that I would expect him to be a lot more predictable. Hope the physio can help too. Doesn't sound as serious as EPSM to me, but I'm certainly not a physio!
Annabelle
PS have you checked he is not getting sugar in any form - unlikely to be the whole story but can take the edge off.
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Post by peppertop on Dec 17, 2008 14:49:54 GMT 1
Hi Mags, No it wasn't Katherine Rees! whoops. As Kerry says you need to ring through Sune du Toit. I'll pm you her number. If she comes up to see her horse later I'll mention you might ring. Its very handy having a physio based on your yard!
The Espm thing is scary isn't it? There are so many horses out there who suffer from it. The one on our yard simply finds it hard to pick up his back feet, he is an ID and talking to trimmers/farriers there are many that seem to have this problem and it gets put down to them being a bit lumpy to handle. Its good to look at all these things as its a really good way of educating yourself and as you said about your old mare, it makes you think if that was going on with them too.
I agree with everyone that you need to do the trust stuuf as well but use it as a guide to how he learns and his responses. The more I did with our Jack the more I knew he had something wrong physically as he is so clever and picks up things really quickly. I can put a plastic feed sack on a stick and wave it around hima nd rub all over him no probs, but you pat him when hes not concentrating and its like something has stung him.
Hes is ace in so many ways but terrible with another and it just doen't add up. Thats what I like to use a lot of the desenitising stuff for, to work out the true personality your working with.
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Post by mags on Dec 17, 2008 16:30:03 GMT 1
Physio based at your yard im so jealous? You can tell her i'll hopefully phone her beginning of next week. Waiting till the weekend to assess what I can and cant do.....after I lost him other night I wouldnt want repeat with physio there. My jack is definately oppersite to yours. I can pat no prob but any more and he's off.
Anyway hopefully better assessment at week end will do the touching all over stuff and some desensiting stuff and see whats what
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Post by mags on Dec 21, 2008 8:15:04 GMT 1
Ruth have you got any links for the Espm diet? Been trying to find some but come up with limited stuff. I'm beginning to suspect the reason he is so cheap is cos he has string halt, not as bad as Izzie did but still there. Hoping so anyway, at his price im expecting trouble and if that was it im a happy person. But it's interesting you mentioned espm as a possible cause of nerves and im suspecting stringhalt. Bit of a coincidence.
Thought it may not hurt just till can get him properly checked out. Vet was here yesterday to check him but too soon to be able to lunge him or anything to check soundness. Vision's of him disappearing across the field lol
Good news though is that he has absolutely no obvious sore points or ticklish spots though, not even in the usual saddle spot or under his belly. He's very happy to be handled all over as long as he doesnt think he will be hit
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