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Post by bertie666 on Mar 11, 2011 21:52:17 GMT 1
Anyone know anything about either of these? MY friends mare has been diagnosed with DSLD (degenerative suspensory ligament disease), came out this winter massively contributed to by poor trimming and weeks of solid snow. She has never been lame from it but tends to be stiff after being ridden, although i think part of this is that the riding is sparodic and shes not very fit (shes 16). My friend is getting very despondant that shes pumping money into her but seeing little to no improvement. She's debating shoes with wedges rather than equine podiatry to see if she could actually do more with her this summer. Ive been doing lots of research into it and there is no evidence to say supportive shoes help, its hit and miss, but MSM seems to be highly recommended by a lot of people. This is her legs in december, il take some more tomorrow as we cant decide if theyve got worse or not   |
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breezy
Grand Prix Poster
Posts: 1,065
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Post by breezy on Mar 12, 2011 18:27:03 GMT 1
This seems (ime) to be a more common problem in the US than it is here, so looking at US websites might be helpful.
I've used MSM on me and on my chap who had a big hole in his suspensory, but with no collapse. For me it worked brilliantly for a sore joint - not quite sure what the pathology was, but after about 3 months it was utterly healed and has stayed so for more than a year afterwards. I also used it successfully for TMJ. It made no effect on my muscle or nerve problems. My horse made a full recovery, but he had everything thrown at him so how important the MSM was I can't say.
It is something I recommend using though if there is a bony issue or a tendon or ligament issue, so it would be worth trying imo. There are other things out there that would also be useful I'm sure. You do need to look at a holistic approach - feed from the inside to help it all heal, and make sure the outside is given needed help with good trimming, safe surrounds and the right kind of exercise and exercises. I'd do Bowen or Reiki to speed healing as well.
I'd steer well clear of wedges anyway, they'll just damage the ligaments and tendons even more.
Best of luck to your friend.
Bx
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Post by bertie666 on Mar 12, 2011 19:43:54 GMT 1
I think thats because the main breeds it seems to affect are few and far between here = / She is on a very good feed, thunderbrooks, and currently has a daep trimming her feet who has consulted with kc la pierre regarding the condition. I think shes just feeling rather dismal - I think the wedges would be abit like us wearing a high heel I cant see how its going to help tbh. Thanks for the response Pic from today  |
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Post by taklishim on Mar 12, 2011 20:56:28 GMT 1
I fear your friend will see little improvement and this will be the long, sad and usual sorry story of DSLD. Poor horse. Barefoot is considered to be best for these horses. Shoeing does not help and in due course if will be very difficult to get the hind feet up even long enough to trim let alone to shoe. Movement ie not being cooped up in a stable is considered best. Not much really works supplement wise but the only thing I found was vita flex flex free. Not a cheap supplement but it may give the horse more time as a pet. There is little you can do trimming wise and it is better to let the horse grow the feet it needs, along with the flare that it puts out to enable it to support itself. I read your earlier comments about wraps, trimming flare etc but on these cases that is counterproductive. The feet in DSLD cases put out flare to support themselves. The DSLD causes imbalances in the horses body as the horse attempts to carry itself in the most comfortable position. It is impossible to improve the feet of DSLD horses as it is not a foot problem. All you can do is round the toes (with nippers as it is quicker and easier on the horse than rasping) just to make it easier for the horse to break over, tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSLD-equine/the above is the main support group for DSLD. There is tons of info in the database and in the files and Dr Kellon helps on that group providing help and advice. If you look at the files section showing the recorded cases you will see plenty of arabs, TB's. some appys, warmbloods, QH's a couple of friesans, Sadly it is not an American problem but more likely one that is underdiagnosed in the UK. I fear that if the horse's fetlocks have dropped that much by age 16 it may well be a case of making her comfortable as a pasture pet for as long as she has a quality of life. Anyone know anything about either of these? these comments are unfortunately based on about 15 years day to day experience of dsld. |
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Post by bertie666 on Mar 12, 2011 23:23:13 GMT 1
thanks for that taklishim i shall have a look. Its such a shame as shes a lovely natured animal = ( she is peruvian x which is a known breed for it.
Interesting take on the flare too
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Post by taklishim on Mar 13, 2011 9:45:41 GMT 1
Bertie, I would be interested if you could find out how she is bred. I knew just about all the peruvians imported into the UK. Perhaps she was bred abroad but if she was bred in the UK I would have probably known the stallion especially if she was 16. She could of course have had a peruvian mother and some other breed as a father. I don't believe that my own pervian stallion bred to any part breds and most peruvian breeders were fanatical about not out breeding. Although there is much denial amongst US breeders of DSLD, excepting the ones who admit the problem, it is a massive problem and of course money talks and certainly encouraged continued breeding. I came across a very helpful US ex breeder who helped me get my head around the situation. Perhaps someone like this could explain to the situation to your friend and it would help her? The termperament of Peruvians is legendery so it is a double whammy when they get DSLD. It appears to be inherited in the breed. I know you were upset about your previous trimmer but in all honestly there is little that can be done. The heels behind are very very low on Peruvian DSLD feet and there is nothing you can do to get any height,. I asked KC about DSLD trimming years ago, in fact I asked many US trimmers but most have not heard of it (which was suprising as they were Americans) nor did they have a solution because of course there isn't one. I am really really sorry for your friend as I know, from experience, what the way forward is going to be. Perhaps UK vets have improved by now but I struggled to find one 10 or 15 years ago who had any idea. I only found info by researching on the internet where there is masses of info. The yahoo group I gave you was set up by a lady with a PP with DSLD. There is also www.dsld.org which gave a lot of info and was I think started originally by a vet J Mero whose family bred peruvians. If your friend wants more info please ask. Unfortunately this is a subject that I am a very unwillling expert on.  I suspect the riding days of this horse will be limited. Your friend will then be in the situation of either having her PTS or keeing her as a pet. ( I kept mine as pets which is where I learnt how to live with DSLD) If kept as a pet then the supplement I gave you works to buy more time for a beloved horse. When I used to buy it is was £80 a jar. The other thing that works to keep the horse comfortable is bute. I have had horses on bute for years with DSLD. Bute substitutes don't work, good luck to your friend |
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